The all-new conspiracy theory!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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The all-new conspiracy theory!
« on: January 16, 2008, 11:18:22 PM »
Tom, this is directed at you.

I'm wondering what line of thinking went into your flip-flop from being absolutely positive that a conspiracy with the purpose of covering up the shape of the earth exists to being absolutely positive that the conspiracy is only over the space race and the conspirators know nothing about the shape of the earth.

Second thought, a question to Dogplatter too.

If Tom doesn't respond with something reasonable, do you still take him seriously as a legitimate flat earth believer?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 03:05:09 PM by The Great God Roundy »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2008, 09:16:41 AM »
If NASA has never been to space and simply fakes their data to win the space race/get funding/maintain the illusion of America's militaristic domination of space, then how would they know that the earth is flat?

Anyone even slightly familiar with the Space Race knows that NASA created in the 50's by the military to get its tools of death and destruction (ICBM's) in the public eye and to intimidate foreign nations with America's space capabilities. A country with a space program, or at least the appearance of one, is a considerable foe indeed.
 
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I'm wondering what line of thinking went into your flip-flop from being absolutely positive that a conspiracy with the purpose of covering up the shape of the earth to being absolutely positive that the conspiracy is only over the space race and the conspirators know nothing about the shape of the earth.

I've never said that the purpose of the Conspiracy was to cover up the shape of the earth. Why would anyone want to cover up the shape of the earth? That's stupid.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 09:49:37 AM by Tom Bishop »

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eric bloedow

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2008, 09:27:05 AM »
oh, come on, tom! you have repeatedly, no, continuously, accused every single pilot, ship navigator, mapmaker, etc, of conspiring to make people think the world is round! now you are denying that you ever said any of that?! you are denying at least half the things you have EVER SAID ON THIS SITE?!?!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 09:28:31 AM »
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oh, come on, tom! you have repeatedly, no, continuously, accused every single pilot, ship navigator, mapmaker, etc, of conspiring to make people think the world is round!

I've never claimed any of those things. Care to dig up a quote?

In fact, Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and other writers of the Flat Earth Literature have repeatedly and thoroughly shown that nautical records demonstrate distances which could not occur on a Round Earth.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 09:32:46 AM by Tom Bishop »

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eric bloedow

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 09:49:36 AM »
show us those records...IF you can!

so what is YOUR explanation for the FACT that an airplane can fly from the south end of south america, over antarctica, and land in southern africa using only a small fraction of the fuel and time YOU claim it should take?

not to mention that all ships south of the equator use round earth maps and get where they want to go...

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 09:53:46 AM »
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show us those records...IF you can!

Read "Earth Not a Globe" by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and "Flat Earth: The history of an Infamous Idea" by Christine Garwood.

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so what is YOUR explanation for the FACT that an airplane can fly from the south end of south america, over antarctica, and land in southern africa using only a small fraction of the fuel and time YOU claim it should take?

Airplane routes from South America don't fly over Antarctica to reach South Africa.

In fact, planes from South America don't go to South Africa at all. There are very few international airports in South Africa, you see.

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not to mention that all ships south of the equator use round earth maps and get where they want to go...

It's possible to get to your destination using a RE map on a FE.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 09:56:56 AM by Tom Bishop »

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 09:56:37 AM »
No, actually, its not. The distance on the FE side would start to double, see how the tropics are concentric. On the RE, they are the same. So actually, the time to get anywhere on the FE on the southern hemisphere would increase horribly. Draw a scale key next to a FE map and look at it. Furthermore, your Earth not a Globe book that you love has no explanation for that, does it?
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 09:57:53 AM »
No, actually, its not. The distance on the FE side would start to double, see how the tropics are concentric. On the RE, they are the same. So actually, the time to get anywhere on the FE on the southern hemisphere would increase horribly. Draw a scale key next to a FE map and look at it. Furthermore, your Earth not a Globe book that you love has no explanation for that, does it?

Too bad you don't have any data to back up your assertion. Your "proof" consists solely of a blind belief in your model.

Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and William Carpenter have thoroughly and repeatedly demonstrated through nautical records from the Southern Hemisphere that the distance between longitudes grow longer beyond the equator.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:01:25 AM by Tom Bishop »

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John Davis

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 09:58:14 AM »
There isn't a FE map.  How can we draw a scale key next to it :/

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eric bloedow

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 10:01:38 AM »
oh, i see...according to you, no airplane has ever TRIED to fly from south america to africa, or vice-versa, in the entire history of the world...

now that i've checked a map, let's try this instead: africa to new zealand.

and as usual, you totally missed my point: i said anyone SOUTH OF THE EQUATOR would get lost if they tried to use a RE map on FE, OR vice-versa!

and YOU are the one who has absolutely blind faith in YOUR model, so how dare you accuse US of being blind!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:03:32 AM by eric bloedow »

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 10:02:59 AM »
There isn't a FE map.  How can we draw a scale key next to it :/

Don't worry username, this is for Tom. It's his fail, and I want him to fall.

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Too bad you don't have any date to back up your assertion. Your "proof" consists of a blind belief in your model.

Actually, I do. Draw a map of the FE with a scale for distances. C'mon, I know you have one, now just add in a scale key for distances. C'mon...what's the matter? Oh, and the second point applies better to you. I actually considered the possibility that the Earth might be flat. You never considered the opposite.

So go ahead, point out to me how the tropics can be concentric and yet the same circumference. Go ahead. Show me with your map. Hit me with your best shot. And then show me how a flight from Sydney to Pretoria can work with the same distance as an RE, without compromising the distance between New York to London.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2008, 10:04:59 AM »
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oh, i see...according to you, no airplane has ever TRIED to fly from south america to africa, or vice-versa, in the entire history of the world...

Sure they did. And it took longer than expected, just as the writers of the Flat Earth Literature have demonstrated.

You have shown no data to demonstrate otherwise, so why should we believe you?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:08:53 AM by Tom Bishop »

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 10:08:35 AM »
Oh, OK, so every flight in the South of the equator takes twice as long, without anyone noticing? Nice Tom, nice. The map.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2008, 10:09:56 AM »
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Oh, OK, so every flight in the South of the equator takes twice as long, without anyone noticing? Nice Tom, nice. The map.

They notice. Why wouldn't they?

I've personally been on international flights which have been delayed by hours. Everyone on my flight certainly noticed that.

Once again, you have shown no data to demonstrate otherwise, so why should we believe you?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:12:18 AM by Tom Bishop »

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2008, 10:13:00 AM »
This isn't a one-time delay, idiot. This is every single flight across there. Not one flight can make it on time. Not one, according to the FE model. Or does the FE do a shifting dance to help the distance?
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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eric bloedow

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2008, 10:14:09 AM »
oh, come on, tom! have you forgotten your OWN model?

according to YOU, africa and new zealand are on OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE FE!

of course someone would notice the difference between 2,000 miles and 25,000 miles!


for the rest of you: this was discussed in an old thread: great circle route

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2008, 10:15:25 AM »
Yes it was, but Tom ran. Let's see if he does again. Again Tom, this isn't an hour, even 5 hour delay. This flight would take a looooonng time on an FE model. About 10-12 times longer than expected.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2008, 10:15:43 AM »
This isn't a one-time delay, idiot. This is every single flight across there. Not one flight can make it on time. Not one, according to the FE model.

What data do you have showing that the flights aren't delayed? None?

Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and the writers of the Flat Earth Literature have proven beyond doubt that the latitude lines separate beyond the equator.

Since you have no data to back up your assertion that the latitude lines converge beyond the equator, it seems that your argument contains  zero evidence. You have not contradicted the vast body of evidence collected by the Flat Earth Society. So why should we believe you?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:18:20 AM by Tom Bishop »

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2008, 10:18:14 AM »
I do. You just gave it to me. You said that your flight was delayed by hours. Not days aboard the plane. Furthermore, you claim that every pilot, who flies there, does not notice a 10-12 multiple of their flight time? Every. Single. Time.


If you claim otherwise. Draw. The. F'ing. Map.

Fail.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2008, 10:21:22 AM »
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This flight would take a looooonng time on an FE model. About 10-12 times longer than expected.

No it wouldn't. You've vastly overestimated.

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I do. You just gave it to me. You said that your flight was delayed by hours. Not days aboard the plane.

I didn't tell you where my flight was headed.

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Furthermore, you claim that every pilot, who flies there, does not notice a 10-12 multiple of their flight time? Every. Single. Time.

I believe that I said that they did notice the delay.

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eric bloedow

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2008, 10:22:34 AM »
you do not have a "vast body of evidence", tom; you have 2 books, which contradict every other book ever written!

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 10:23:32 AM »
OK, lets assume for a half second that you're right, and that its 3 times longer. Let's do a roll call for all people who have flown on the South of the equator. According to you, a 20 hour flight should take 60 hours, and a 5 hour flight 15. Each time. Either pilots are in on the conspiracy, are they are all the stupidest people on Earth. Engy, you ever fly South of the equator?

Furthermore. You refuse to put a scale on your map that I know you have hidden as a stupid jpeg on your computer. Put it, and give it to me.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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John Davis

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 10:24:34 AM »
I've been on a plane that traveled south of the equator, but never on a transcontinental flight, which is what would be needed to note this.

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John Davis

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2008, 10:26:08 AM »
Actually, I went to Australia a long time ago.  Not sure about that flight being longer, but I didn't note it was.  Course I slept through most of it and didn't have a watch so <shrugs>

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2008, 10:26:58 AM »
Sorry to pry, but I need the starting location and destination :D Where'd you start and what city you end up in?

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Course I slept through most of it and didn't have a watch so

But the time zones matched up, didn't they? I mean, you arrived at the time you were supposed to, and predictably, you kept your old time when you first slept again?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:28:31 AM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2008, 10:27:21 AM »
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What data do you have showing that the flights aren't delayed? None?

You could probably find some flight predictions. Shipping predictions would be useful as well. I dread to think of the delay that a cargo ship would experience.


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Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and the writers of the Flat Earth Literature have Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and the writers of the Flat Earth Literature have proven beyond doubt that the latitude lines separate beyond the equator. that the latitude lines separate beyond the equator.

I wouldn't say 'proven beyond doubt'. They've taken accounts that they have no evidence of being true, placed them out of contex and put them in a position which suggests a possibility of a flat earth.

I must admit there does seem to be quite a lack of proper scientific investigation in E:naG. It does make me wonder why you value the opinion of someone who can't write up a proper experiment so highly.

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Since you have no data to back up your assertion that the latitude lines converge beyond the equator, it seems that your argument contains  zero evidence. You have not contradicted the vast body of evidence collected by the Flat Earth Society. So why should we believe you?

You don't have any data to back up your assertion. You only have the accounts of a few pieces of literature. If you want data, go and look for a company that requires accurate maps of the planet.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 10:30:21 AM »
you do not have a "vast body of evidence", tom; you have 2 books, which contradict every other book ever written!

Actually I have 33 books, several newsletters and periodicals dedicated to the Flat Earth Theory, several documentaries (one of which appeared on the Discovery Channel and another of which appeared on the Learning Channel), and numerous articles which have appeared in established scientific publications. A partial listing can be found in my signature.

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OK, lets assume for a half second that you're right, and that its 3 times longer. Let's do a roll call for all people who have flown on the South of the equator. According to you, a 20 hour flight should take 60 hours, and a 5 hour flight 15. Each time. Either pilots are in on the conspiracy, are they are all the stupidest people on Earth.

Why would a pilot do anything about an incorrect distance on a map? They're just glorified taxi cab drivers.

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Furthermore. You refuse to put a scale on your map that I know you have hidden as a stupid jpeg on your computer. Put it, and give it to me.

I don't have a hidden map with a scale on my computer. The maps with scales are the accurate ones done by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham and Charles Johnson before their deaths. You can find Dr. Rowbotham's map reprinted in "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea" by Christine Garwood.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:36:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

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John Davis

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2008, 10:30:44 AM »
Sorry to pry, but I need the starting location and destination :D Where'd you start and what city you end up in?
This was a very very long time ago, I'll try to guess/remember the best I can.

Well, I started in TN, went to California, and from there I landed in either Melbourne or Sydney, I'm not sure which came first.  Probably Melbourne since I went up to Brisbane too.

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fshy94

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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2008, 10:35:53 AM »


Why would a pilot do anything about an incorrect distance on a map? They're just glorified taxi cab drivers.

I don't have a hidden map with a scale on my computer. America is about 3,000 miles long. You can just use that fact when debating the accuracy of any particular map.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! You fail Tom. Have you ever flown an f'ing Cesna, let alone a commercial plane? It's not a taxicab. Ask engy.

Secondly, you do have a map, without a scale. Stick a scale on it, according to how you would make the distances match, and give them to me. I know you have the map, and a surplus of time.

EDIT: Thanks Username. That flight isn't the best flight I would have picked, but thanks anyway. The problem with that flight is that its sorta North South, rather than East West, and I'd have preferred a Southern Hemisphere to Southern Hemisphere flight. That said, it would be pretty remarkable if all flights South of the Equator took between 3-15 times as long as they should.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:37:29 AM by fshy94 »
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: The all-new conspiracy theory!
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2008, 10:38:41 AM »
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! You fail Tom. Have you ever flown an f'ing Cesna, let alone a commercial plane? It's not a taxicab. Ask engy.

Airline pilots are hired by the airliner to pick up passengers and take them to their desired destination. Sounds like a Taxi driver to me.

Would a New York Taxi driver take the initiative and do something about it if he found that a distance on his glovebox map was inaccurate? No. The Taxi driver doesn't care. The Taxi driver only cares about money.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 12:59:32 PM by Tom Bishop »