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The Earth is round because

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2008, 06:25:39 PM »
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
Alright, I'll bite. In this thread, Rowbotham's claim to understand physics is completely destroyed.

To name but a few of his errors, he:
- claims that momentum is a force.
- assumes an object loses all momentum when it reaches the top of it's path.
- fails to use boundary condition reasoning to spot his errors.
- doesn't perform a control experiment (or even consider one), which is what the OP did.
- states (incorrectly) that a falling object takes a diagonal course, not a parabolic one.

What are you talking about? The OP in that thread got the same results as Rowbotham. There is was no centripetal acceleration detected.

And your criticisms against Rowbotham's word usage is due to the fact that terms like "centripetal acceleration" didn't exist in the 1800's.

That thread doesn't disprove Rowbotham's results. The Author got the same results as Samuel Birley Rowbotham. The weight fell straight down.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 06:29:51 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2008, 06:28:54 PM »
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 06, 2008, 06:24:46 PM
You still ignored my threads:
Planetary illumination, orbits and transit: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25251.0
Bendy light: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25219.0
The accuracy of Rowbotham: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25098.0
The flaw of experiments assuming a flat horizontal: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25117.0

Then there's the threads about the equinox, the sun defying the laws of physics and drastically changing speed throughout the seasons, etc.

Where in any of those threads did you disprove Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe?
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2008, 06:29:33 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
Alright, I'll bite. In this thread, Rowbotham's claim to understand physics is completely destroyed.

To name but a few of his errors, he:
- claims that momentum is a force.
- assumes an object loses all momentum when it reaches the top of it's path.
- fails to use boundary condition reasoning to spot his errors.
- doesn't perform a control experiment (or even consider one), which is what the OP did.
- states (incorrectly) that a falling object takes a diagonal course, not a parabolic one.

What are you talking about? The OP in that thread got the same results as Rowbotham. There is was no centripetal acceleration detected.

And your criticisms against Rowbotham's word usage is due to the fact that terms like "centripetal acceleration" didn't exist in the 1800's.
Because in Rowbotham's age, he didn't fully understand physics. Therefore, his statements are pretty much worthless today.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2008, 06:30:04 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 06, 2008, 06:24:46 PM
You still ignored my threads:
Planetary illumination, orbits and transit: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25251.0
Bendy light: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25219.0
The accuracy of Rowbotham: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25098.0
The flaw of experiments assuming a flat horizontal: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25117.0

Then there's the threads about the equinox, the sun defying the laws of physics and drastically changing speed throughout the seasons, etc.

Where in any of those threads did you disprove Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe?
The last three. And many of my other posts that didn't become threads.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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ghazwozza

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2008, 06:30:16 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
Alright, I'll bite. In this thread, Rowbotham's claim to understand physics is completely destroyed.

To name but a few of his errors, he:
- claims that momentum is a force.
- assumes an object loses all momentum when it reaches the top of it's path.
- fails to use boundary condition reasoning to spot his errors.
- doesn't perform a control experiment (or even consider one), which is what the OP did.
- states (incorrectly) that a falling object takes a diagonal course, not a parabolic one.

What are you talking about? The OP in that thread got the same results as Rowbotham. There is was no centripetal acceleration detected.

Why don't you respond to my points. He makes numerous basic errors in his explanation. Try to address each bullet point.

Also, the OP got the same result as Rowbotham in a control experiment (in an aeroplane). Rowbotham didn't do a control experiment, showing bad scientific practice. The fact that the same result was found in the control experiment shows that the experiment itself is useless.

Rowbotham fails at science.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2008, 06:30:58 PM »
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 06, 2008, 06:29:33 PM
Because in Rowbotham's age, he didn't fully understand physics. Therefore, his statements are pretty much worthless today.

So where did someone get different results than Rowbotham? Who got contradicting results? Who disproved Earth Not a Globe?

Quote
The last three. And many of my other posts that didn't become threads.

Really? In what threads did you make experiments to contradict Rowbotham's?

I didn't see any.

Quote
Why don't you respond to my points. He makes numerous basic errors in his explanation. Try to address each bullet point.

Also, the OP got the same result as Rowbotham in a control experiment (in an aeroplane). Rowbotham didn't do a control experiment, showing bad scientific practice. The fact that the same result was found in the control experiment shows that the experiment itself is useless.

Rowbotham fails at science.

The OP got the same results as Rowbotham did. I don't see how the poster of that thread is disproving Rowbotham if he got the same results.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 06:33:18 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2008, 06:32:51 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 06, 2008, 06:29:33 PM
Because in Rowbotham's age, he didn't fully understand physics. Therefore, his statements are pretty much worthless today.

So where did someone get different results than Rowbotham? Who got contradicting results? Who disproved Earth Not a Globe?
Henry Yule Oldham, Alfred Russel Wallace, several others, and I.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2008, 06:34:43 PM »
Quote
Henry Yule Oldham, Alfred Russel Wallace, several others, and I.

Where are those findings published?

I'm still waiting for you guys to show me something that disproves Rowbotham or gives a contradicting result.
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ghazwozza

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2008, 06:35:49 PM »
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:03:59 PM
Quote
I can't be bothered to go searching for evidence now.

Thanks. I knew you didn't have any.

Alright, I'll bite. In this thread, Rowbotham's claim to understand physics is completely destroyed.

To name but a few of his errors, he:
- claims that momentum is a force.
- assumes an object loses all momentum when it reaches the top of it's path.
- fails to use boundary condition reasoning to spot his errors.
- doesn't perform a control experiment (or even consider one), which is what the OP did.
- states (incorrectly) that a falling object takes a diagonal course, not a parabolic one.

Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:30:16 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
Alright, I'll bite. In this thread, Rowbotham's claim to understand physics is completely destroyed.

To name but a few of his errors, he:
- claims that momentum is a force.
- assumes an object loses all momentum when it reaches the top of it's path.
- fails to use boundary condition reasoning to spot his errors.
- doesn't perform a control experiment (or even consider one), which is what the OP did.
- states (incorrectly) that a falling object takes a diagonal course, not a parabolic one.

What are you talking about? The OP in that thread got the same results as Rowbotham. There is was no centripetal acceleration detected.

Why don't you respond to my points. He makes numerous basic errors in his explanation. Try to address each bullet point.

Also, the OP got the same result as Rowbotham in a control experiment (in an aeroplane). Rowbotham didn't do a control experiment, showing bad scientific practice. The fact that the same result was found in the control experiment shows that the experiment itself is useless.

Rowbotham fails at science.

In red are all of my points that you ignored. Can you not answer them? Do you admit that Rowbotham's work is scientifically unsound?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:34:43 PM
I'm still waiting for you guys to show me something that disproves Rowbotham

Already have Tom, but you chose not to see it.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2008, 06:47:19 PM »
I still don't see any conflicting results to Rowbotham's results. Complaining about his misuse of physics terms to what is in common use today doesn't really mean anything since its unclear what those terms meant in the Victorian Age.

I just want to see were someone got a different result in an experiment to what Samuel Birley Rowbotham observed.

Where were Rowbotham's experiments disproved?
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ghazwozza

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2008, 06:59:39 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 06:47:19 PM
I still don't see any conflicting results to Rowbotham's results. Complaining about his misuse of physics terms to what is in common use today doesn't really mean anything since its unclear what those terms meant in the Victorian Age.

I just want to see were someone got a different result in an experiment to what Samuel Birley Rowbotham observed.

Where were Rowbotham's experiments disproved?

You are not listening. When did I say the OP got different results? I said that the experiment itself was useless and inconclusive.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2008, 07:02:18 PM »
So the results of Rowbotham's experiments were never disproved or contradicted then. I already knew that. Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 04:08:12 AM by Tom Bishop »
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ghazwozza

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2008, 07:10:31 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 07:02:18 PM
So the results of Rowbotham's experiments were never disproved or contradicted then. Thanks.

No problem. So you agree with me -- his entire experiment was bunk.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 07:23:01 PM by ghazwozza »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2008, 07:24:02 PM »
When you guys can come up with an experiment which contradicts with Rowbotham's results, let me know.
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ghazwozza

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2008, 07:30:59 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 07:24:02 PM
When you guys can come up with an experiment which contradicts with Rowbotham's results, let me know.

So we're agreed: ENaG is inadmissable as evidence. I will be referencing this thread whenever you mention it from now on.
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markjo

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2008, 07:37:04 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 07:24:02 PM
When you guys can come up with an experiment which contradicts with Rowbotham's results, let me know.

How about this one?
http://www.ehartwell.com/Apollo17/

Quote
"We'd like to confirm, from the crew of America, that the world is round."
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Edtharan

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2008, 08:00:15 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: ghazwozza on December 06, 2008, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 04:22:36 PM
Proof?

Do a search. Alternatively, I propose a challenge. You submit a page, any page, from ENaG, and I'll point out either a scientific error or an unsurported claim.

So you don't have any proof that ENAG was discredited, then?

Thought so.
Actually he is saying that he has proof, he just wants to know which part of ENaG you think is the most conclusive point about FET. He is saying he has proof that every page has something that discredits it.
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Everyday household experimentation.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2008, 08:21:30 PM »
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markjo

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2008, 08:42:44 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 08:21:30 PM
Quote from: markjo on December 06, 2008, 07:37:04 PM
How about this one?
http://www.ehartwell.com/Apollo17/
http://www.ehartwell.com/Apollo17/images/550px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

How about one that was actually performed?

As opposed to your claim of being able to see a beach 30 miles away with binoculars at sea level?  ::)
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2008, 09:33:31 PM »
When you have some evidence which contradicts Rowbotham's let me know and we can continue this thread.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2008, 11:10:20 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2008, 09:33:31 PM
When you have some evidence which contradicts Rowbotham's let me know and we can continue this thread.
I read through the following topics to make sure you did not already (validly) address them:

1. Occlusion by Horizon not restored by telescope:

a. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=24914.msg552253#msg552253
b. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25081.msg553672#msg553672
c. http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=649.0
d. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22317.0
e. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23639.msg503054#msg503054
f. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18526.msg334789#msg334789
g. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18526.msg334800#msg334800
h. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18526.msg334813#msg334813
i. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18526.msg335497#msg335497

Additional evidence for 1:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25080.msg553264#msg553264
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25081.msg552787#msg552787
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25081.msg553368#msg553368
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25210.msg560149#msg560149
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18506.msg333875#msg333875
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18483.msg333104#msg333104
http://www.pdas.com/atmthick.htm

2. FE Sun not possible:

a. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22996.0
b. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25228.msg559688#msg559688
c. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25219.0
d. http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=683.0
e. http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=479.0
f. http://theflatearthsociety.net/forum/index.php?topic=646.0
g. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23623.0
h. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25028.0
i. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18506.msg333875#msg333875

Additional supporting evidence for 2:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=24827.msg556818#msg556818
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25282.msg560104#msg560104
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25028.msg551479#msg551479
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25028.msg551782#msg551782
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25210.msg560149#msg560149
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18483.msg333104#msg333104
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18506.msg333875#msg333875

3. Planetary model contradiction:

a. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25251.0
b. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25251.msg559735#msg559735

4. Flaw of experiments based on flat horizontal/flat water:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25117.0

5. Rowbotham's false accuracy:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25098.0

6. Curvature from high altitudes:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25098.msg554923#msg554923

7. Midnight sun:

a. http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25214.0
b. http://www.palinstravels.co.uk/book-1253

Additional supporting evidence for 7:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/541907/antarctica_land_of_the_midnight_sun.html (personal account, with a 'contact' link)
http://frozensouth.com/2008/10/30/ice-caves-and-24-hour-sunlight.aspx (personal account, you can surely contact them from their site)
http://www.latintrails.com/destinations/antarctica/antarctica.htm (book a trip)
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25214.msg558106#msg558106


(I will ask friends from a local high school programs to send me personal accounts and pictures if they end up going to Antarctica)

I will be adding more in time. Once you have addressed these, we can continue this thread.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 04:15:39 PM by Perfect Circle »
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2008, 11:43:35 PM »
I guess Tom has exited the thread. Unless he's going to come back here and say something stupid like, 'read ENAG' or, 'you still haven't provided any proof'.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2008, 12:49:19 AM »
I don't see any experiments conducted in any of those threads which contradict or disproves any of Rowbotham's experiments.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 12:55:50 AM by Tom Bishop »
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2008, 01:01:02 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2008, 12:49:19 AM
I don't see any experiments conducted in any of those threads which contradict or disproves any of Rowbotham's experiments.
Which means you did not visit the links, and therefore, are not worthy to debate. Come back when you are ready.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2008, 01:02:23 AM »
I checked again and I still didn't see any contradicting experiments. Care to point one out to me?
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2008, 01:04:48 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2008, 01:02:23 AM
I checked again and I still didn't see any contradicting experiments. Care to point one out to me?
And you peer-reviewed anything? Come back when you're ready.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2008, 01:05:46 AM »
Guess you really don't have any contradicting experiments to show me.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2008, 01:17:33 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2008, 01:05:46 AM
Guess you really don't have any contradicting experiments to show me.
Guess you don't have any proof that the earth is flat.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
*

Tom Bishop

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2008, 01:22:51 AM »
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 07, 2008, 01:17:33 AM
Guess you don't have any proof that the earth is flat.

Look out your window, read ENAG, and stop trying to change the topic.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: The Earth is round because
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2008, 01:25:17 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2008, 01:22:51 AM
Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 07, 2008, 01:17:33 AM
Guess you don't have any proof that the earth is flat.

Look out your window, read ENAG, and stop trying to change the topic.
Out my window: houses.
Out a plane window: very slight curvature.
ENAG: discredited and flawed.
You're the one who won't continue the topic until we provide you with evidence. Since I have complied, you are the only one holding up the topic.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2008, 04:09:59 PM
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.
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