Let me ask again

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Let me ask again
« on: September 06, 2008, 05:04:51 PM »
I posted a topic in the "Questions and Clarification" asking how FE'rs can explain The Aurora effect, but a moderator locked it without an explanation or anything.

So, immediately I assumed I was breaking a rule of some sort. I looked for a few seconds, and found no rules. So then I assumed that it was already in the FAQ. Well, this has to be the 10th time I checked it, and I saw no explanation about the Aurora effect.

After that, I'm concluding that I posted in the wrong forum. Although the moderator could've... moved my topic, but I'm only assuming that's poor moderation or something. Maybe I asked it too rudely. So here I am, repeating my question. Can you explain the Aurora effect and how it works on the FE model?

By the way, if you're a moderator, and going to lock this topic or ban me, at LEAST explain why you're doing that, instead of leaving me hanging, capable to make the same mistake again.

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Parsifal

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 05:08:25 PM »
I locked it because this sort of thing has been discussed extensively, and you seemed to be posting it without using the search function. Plus, considering the outstanding brevity of your post, I thought it fitting to respond with an even shorter retort.

Now, to answer your question: the aurora works in exactly the same way on a FE as it does on a RE.
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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 04:43:56 AM »
Now, to answer your question: the aurora works in exactly the same way on a FE as it does on a RE.

So apparently, the 32 mile Sun, which emits light in a "spotlight" directly toward the surface of the Earth, has high energy particles that interact with the magnetic field of the Earth after being carried there by solar wind. 

Somehow I don't think that the mechanics that work on a RE, with all of the cosmological effects that are required, will explain the aurora on FE.  The lack of, or multiple poles,  a Southern Magnetic Pole in the FE makes for greatly different field lines than the RE model that would probably not allow the replication of the effect.

I just don't think that this diagram is a sufficient explanation for both models...



There is also this description of the mechanism...

Quote from: wikipedia
The Earth is constantly immersed in the solar wind, a rarefied flow of hot plasma (gas of free electrons and positive ions) emitted by the Sun in all directions, a result of the million-degree heat of the Sun's outermost layer, the solar corona. The solar wind usually reaches Earth with a velocity around 400 km/s, density around 5 ions/cc and magnetic field intensity around 2–5 nT (nanoteslas; Earth's surface field is typically 30,000–50,000 nT). These are typical values. During magnetic storms, in particular, flows can be several times faster; the interplanetary magnetic field (IMF) may also be much stronger.

The IMF originates on the Sun, related to the field of sunspots, and its field lines (lines of force) are dragged out by the solar wind. That alone would tend to line them up in the Sun-Earth direction, but the rotation of the Sun skews them (at Earth) by about 45 degrees, so that field lines passing Earth may actually start near the western edge ("limb") of the visible sun.[8]

Earth's magnetosphere is the space region dominated by its magnetic field. It forms an obstacle in the path of the solar wind, causing it to be diverted around it, at a distance of about 70,000 km (before it reaches that boundary, typically 12,000–15,000 km upstream, a bow shock forms). The width of the magnetospheric obstacle, abreast of Earth, is typically 190,000 km, and on the night side a long "magnetotail" of stretched field lines extends to great distances.

When the solar wind is perturbed, it easily transfers energy and material into the magnetosphere. The electrons and ions in the magnetosphere that are thus energized move along the magnetic field lines to the polar regions of the atmosphere.

It doesn't appear that this mechanism can be in place with the significantly smaller FE Sun.

Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 12:05:02 PM »
I second this question -- FE explanation please?

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Moon squirter

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 03:08:12 PM »
I second this question -- FE explanation please?

I third it.  The FE sun too local.  Again the heavens present a problem...
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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 03:22:33 PM »
Well, it looks like we have disproved the Flat Earth theory. There have been no sound or even mildly convincing articles about how auroras could really work. I did use the search function and I found a lot of very short posts with differing arguments. One of the posts actually used the picture above, but no one ever responded to it. (The post was from summer 2007).

Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 03:33:48 PM »
On the Flat Earth the Aurora, also commonly referred to as the southern and northern lights, are a luminous atmospheric phenomenon that generally appear as bright colorful bands of light. Auroras are often visible in the night sky in both the northern and southern hemidisks of the Earth.

Auroras are believed to be caused by charged high energy particles from the solar winds that are trapped within the magnetic field of the Earth. As these charged particles spiral back and forth along the lines of the magnetic field, they become visible nearest to the north and south magnetic poles where these magnetic lines become vertical and disappear into the body of the Earth.

The bright visually pleasing colors commonly associated with auroras are the result of electrons colliding with oxygen and nitrogen molecules in the Earth's atmosphere. As these molecules become energized, then cool from their energized state, they emit actual light that can be seen by the naked human eye.

Auroras, both the northern and southern lights, can most frequently and easily be seen during the winter months within a 2500 km radius of the vertical magnetic field lines. This area is also known as the auroral zone.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 04:09:55 PM »
For clarification: The southern lights are apparent all around the 'southern rim' of the flat Earth before approaching Antarctica right?
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 04:36:19 PM »
Auroras are believed to be caused by charged high energy particles from the solar winds that are trapped within the magnetic field of the Earth. As these charged particles spiral back and forth along the lines of the magnetic field, they become visible nearest to the north and south magnetic poles where these magnetic lines become vertical and disappear into the body of the Earth.

Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 07:08:39 PM »
Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

Hmm, I am going to guess that they don't know.

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Parsifal

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 08:06:51 PM »


You're right; that diagram fails to explain anything in FET. It also fails to explain anything in RET, unless you'd like to argue that there are magnetic monopoles in the solar wind.

Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

A rotating core of some sort. It may be cylindrical or spherical; I am not certain.
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 08:13:51 PM »
what makes the magnetic south pole?

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Parsifal

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 08:17:21 PM »
what makes the magnetic south pole?

The rotating core.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 08:24:13 PM »
Auroras are believed to be caused by charged high energy particles from the solar winds that are trapped within the magnetic field of the Earth. As these charged particles spiral back and forth along the lines of the magnetic field, they become visible nearest to the north and south magnetic poles where these magnetic lines become vertical and disappear into the body of the Earth.

Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

The gravitational field of the anti-heavens causes the liquid core (likely disk shaped) to rotate.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 08:48:35 PM »
wow powerful enough to rotate huge amount of metal hundreds of miles under the earth?  How do we not get torn apart by the same thing?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 11:16:46 PM »
wow powerful enough to rotate huge amount of metal hundreds of miles under the earth?  How do we not get torn apart by the same thing?

The gravitational effect upon the liquid core is weak, but over the eons enough pull and momentum have built up that the core is able to rotate at about one rotation per 24 hours.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 11:20:22 PM »
I actually wonder if perhaps it's the rotation of the core causing the rotations of the heavens and all its associated effects, rather than the other way around.  It is an awful big core.
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physics101

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2008, 08:18:43 AM »
Auroras are believed to be caused by charged high energy particles from the solar winds that are trapped within the magnetic field of the Earth. As these charged particles spiral back and forth along the lines of the magnetic field, they become visible nearest to the north and south magnetic poles where these magnetic lines become vertical and disappear into the body of the Earth.

Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

For further clarification, and just to be nit-picky, the magnetic field is caused by the rotation of the liguid core, and the iron core of the Earth at different speeds from one another, not just the rotation of the iron core.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2008, 10:07:25 AM »
I actually wonder if perhaps it's the rotation of the core causing the rotations of the heavens and all its associated effects, rather than the other way around.  It is an awful big core.


I thought according to FE earth had no gravitational effect like the other planets and sun?  Earth is accelerating right?

The gravitational effect upon the liquid core is weak, but over the eons enough pull and momentum have built up that the core is able to rotate at about one rotation per 24 hours.

The Core is made of denser material than crust (I think), so if the core is being turned by the gravitational effects from the heavens, then why isn't the crust of the earth torn apart by the same thing?

what makes the magnetic south pole?

The rotating core.

Okay, the south pole is in Antarctica, or according to FE, it would be somewhere on the outer rim of the earth disk (ice wall).  If there is a rotating cylinder, and the top axis of rotation is the magnetic north pole, then shouldn't the magnetic south pole be at the opposite axis?  In this case, the bottom of the cylinder?

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 10:37:17 AM »
Auroras are believed to be caused by charged high energy particles from the solar winds that are trapped within the magnetic field of the Earth. As these charged particles spiral back and forth along the lines of the magnetic field, they become visible nearest to the north and south magnetic poles where these magnetic lines become vertical and disappear into the body of the Earth.

Hmm, you say it is a magnetic field?  In RE theory Earth Generates a magnetic field by the rotation of earths magnetic iron core.  The same process gives us a magnetic north and south pole.  What in FE theory creates earths magnetosphere? 

For further clarification, and just to be nit-picky, the magnetic field is caused by the rotation of the liguid core, and the iron core of the Earth at different speeds from one another, not just the rotation of the iron core.

LOL thanks nit pick  :P.  I concede that you are correct.  I guess for FE that would mean a liquid outer core (cylinder) and iron inner cylinder.

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Parsifal

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 11:09:09 AM »
Okay, the south pole is in Antarctica, or according to FE, it would be somewhere on the outer rim of the earth disk (ice wall).  If there is a rotating cylinder, and the top axis of rotation is the magnetic north pole, then shouldn't the magnetic south pole be at the opposite axis?  In this case, the bottom of the cylinder?

The Earth's magnetic south pole lies in the Arctic Ocean.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 11:28:00 AM »
I actually wonder if perhaps it's the rotation of the core causing the rotations of the heavens and all its associated effects, rather than the other way around.  It is an awful big core.


I thought according to FE earth had no gravitational effect like the other planets and sun?  Earth is accelerating right?


Actually there are multiple theories regarding this.  It might not be the mass so much as the electromagnetic effects of the rotating liquid core that is causing the effects you describe as gravitation.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 11:30:55 AM »
The Earth's magnetic south pole lies in the Arctic Ocean.

Let's see if I can catch this before all hell breaks loose...

OBLsteve is right... The Earth's North Pole (note the caps) is a magnetic south-pole (and vice versa).

(With the exception that the the North Pole is the spot on the earth that corresponds to the North Celestial Pole and is not the same location where compasses point north, but hopefully everyone understands the clarification I'm trying to make.)

Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 11:39:02 AM »



You're right; that diagram fails to explain anything in FET. It also fails to explain anything in RET, unless you'd like to argue that there are magnetic monopoles in the solar wind.

No, that seems to pretty much describes the way that RE aurora work.


Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 11:43:18 AM »
Actually there are multiple theories regarding this.  It might not be the mass so much as the electromagnetic effects of the rotating liquid core that is causing the effects you describe as gravitation.

Well, that is a new one.  Then why does gravitation effect non-ferrous materials?  Try as I might, I can't pick up an aluminum spoon with a magnet.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 11:50:38 AM »
Okay, the south pole is in Antarctica, or according to FE, it would be somewhere on the outer rim of the earth disk (ice wall).  If there is a rotating cylinder, and the top axis of rotation is the magnetic north pole, then shouldn't the magnetic south pole be at the opposite axis?  In this case, the bottom of the cylinder?

The Earth's magnetic south pole lies in the Arctic Ocean.

Okay my mistake, but my question should still be valid, except the poles are reversed from what I stated.  If the magnetic pole in the arctic ocean is on or around the axis of rotation of the cylinder, shouldn't it's counterpart be at the bottom of this cylinder?  Why instead is it found somewhere on the outer part of the disk?  Or is it.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 11:58:42 AM »
Actually there are multiple theories regarding this.  It might not be the mass so much as the electromagnetic effects of the rotating liquid core that is causing the effects you describe as gravitation.

Well, that is a new one.  Then why does gravitation effect non-ferrous materials?  Try as I might, I can't pick up an aluminum spoon with a magnet.

Well, it's not really gravitation.  My theory is that the rotation of the core is causing the rotation of the heavens and the Coriolis Effect, among other things.  It's just having a very subtle effect on the earth and the celestial bodies (which themselves may be ferrous, or composed of something completely alien to us that happens to be subject to electromagnetism).  Whatever the case, it's clearly one of the fundamental "forces" of the universe, whether the cause comes from the heavens as Tom postulates or from the core as I postulate.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 12:13:00 PM »
Well, it's not really gravitation.  My theory is that the rotation of the core is causing the rotation of the heavens and the Coriolis Effect, among other things.  It's just having a very subtle effect on the earth and the celestial bodies (which themselves may be ferrous, or composed of something completely alien to us that happens to be subject to electromagnetism).  Whatever the case, it's clearly one of the fundamental "forces" of the universe, whether the cause comes from the heavens as Tom postulates or from the core as I postulate.

This alien material must be radioactive.  We are at 110 elements, and we haven't discovered one that fits this description.  There is also the problem that matter with these atomic masses are highly unstable with half lives measured in nanoseconds.

So now we need a new class of material that has never been observed, and can not be created in a laboratory, but is so easy to create that it is natural.

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Parsifal

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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 12:13:39 PM »
No, that seems to pretty much describes the way that RE aurora work.

So how do you explain electrically charged particles having a force applied to them which is parallel to a magnetic field, in a situation where the only significant force is electromagnetism?

Okay my mistake, but my question should still be valid, except the poles are reversed from what I stated.  If the magnetic pole in the arctic ocean is on or around the axis of rotation of the cylinder, shouldn't it's counterpart be at the bottom of this cylinder?  Why instead is it found somewhere on the outer part of the disk?  Or is it.

Look up the definition of the South Magnetic Pole (which is a magnetic north pole) and then get back to me.
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Re: Let me ask again
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2008, 12:21:15 PM »
So how do you explain electrically charged particles having a force applied to them which is parallel to a magnetic field, in a situation where the only significant force is electromagnetism?

Well, here is a description from someone that knows more about the subject that I could ever hope to...

Quote
Auroras are produced by the collision of charged particles from Earth's magnetosphere, mostly electrons but also protons and heavier particles, with atoms and molecules of Earth's upper atmosphere (at altitudes above 80 km (50 miles). The particles have energies of 1 to 100 keV. They originate from the Sun and arrive at the vicinity of Earth in the relatively low-energy solar wind. When the trapped magnetic field of the solar wind is favourably oriented (principally southwards) it reconnects with Earth's magnetic field, and solar particles enter the magnetosphere and are swept to the magnetotail. Further magnetic reconnection accelerates the particles towards Earth.


Okay my mistake, but my question should still be valid, except the poles are reversed from what I stated.  If the magnetic pole in the arctic ocean is on or around the axis of rotation of the cylinder, shouldn't it's counterpart be at the bottom of this cylinder?  Why instead is it found somewhere on the outer part of the disk?  Or is it.

Look up the definition of the South Magnetic Pole (which is a magnetic north pole) and then get back to me.
[/quote]

No, it is a valid question.  Why isn't the pole opposite of the Northern Magnetic Pole, aka Southern Magnetic Pole, at the opposite end of this cylinder, and somehow either curves through the structure of this cylinder?