The big gears in the sky

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The big gears in the sky
« on: August 29, 2008, 02:28:03 AM »
OK, I have a question that I haven't found an answer to in any other thread.  I've seen the "big gears in the sky" animation used to explain star rotation.  (They're called planetary gears, by the way).  My question is this:  what accounts for constellations rising and setting at different times of the year?  If the gears are a constant, shouldn't the constellations be fixed also?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 02:32:19 AM by Stabler12 »

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2008, 03:19:27 AM »
Obviously they're not a constant. It's a gear slightly bigger than what takes to rotate in 1 day, so that the movement of the constellations is slightly different every 24 hours.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2008, 03:26:09 AM »
Wait...the gears aren't of uniform size?  Kinda hard to do in the FET configuration, isn't it?  (trying to picture it, but the teeth of the outer gears would eventually intersect each other bringing the heavens to a grinding halt.)

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2008, 03:29:24 AM »
No, the teeth are the same size, but there are more of them. Like the different cogs on a bike.
Quote from: General Douchebag[/quote
If Eminem had actually died, I would feel the force realign.
Quote from: ghazwozza
Of course it doesn't make sense, it's Tom Bishop's answer.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2008, 03:32:32 AM »
Hmm...how does the "chain" move from one cog to another?

Not being a smartass, just trying to understand the FET concept.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2008, 03:41:26 AM »
OK, I have a question that I haven't found an answer to in any other thread.  I've seen the "big gears in the sky" animation used to explain star rotation.  (They're called planetary gears, by the way).  My question is this:  what accounts for constellations rising and setting at different times of the year?  If the gears are a constant, shouldn't the constellations be fixed also?

Of course, there is still the even smaller matter of explaining why the gears don't explain the observed motion of the stars.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2008, 03:52:30 AM »
OK, I have a question that I haven't found an answer to in any other thread.  I've seen the "big gears in the sky" animation used to explain star rotation.  (They're called planetary gears, by the way).  My question is this:  what accounts for constellations rising and setting at different times of the year?  If the gears are a constant, shouldn't the constellations be fixed also?

Of course, there is still the even smaller matter of explaining why the gears don't explain the observed motion of the stars.

I wasn't going to go there...I was more interested in how FET explained earth's seasonal precessions as they related to star movement...never mind how the sun jumps track for seasonal change.

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Parsifal

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2008, 04:16:43 AM »
Obviously the sun orbits with a period of 24 hours and the stars rotate with a period of 23 hours 56 minutes. Or, in my model of a rotating Earth, the Earth rotates every 23 hours 56 minutes and the sun orbits with a period of 365.2425 solar days.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2008, 04:18:53 AM »
But doesn't that mean the constellations should always be in the same place at all times of the year?

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Parsifal

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 04:23:27 AM »
But doesn't that mean the constellations should always be in the same place at all times of the year?

I wasn't aware that the stars moved around haphazardly in RET.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 04:32:57 AM »
But doesn't that mean the constellations should always be in the same place at all times of the year?

I wasn't aware that the stars moved around haphazardly in RET.

They don't.  I've just never seen a thread addressing the topic of constellation migration...in so many words.

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 04:41:40 AM »
They don't.

Ah, so we are in agreement that FET explains the observations satisfactorily.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2008, 04:55:45 AM »
Not at all... I have never seen an FET apostle address it.  Constellations have been observedin their heliacal risings and  settings at different times, (in a predictable pattern) for millenia.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 04:57:26 AM by Stabler12 »

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Parsifal

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2008, 05:12:03 AM »
Not at all... I have never seen an FET apostle address it.  Constellations have been observedin their heliacal risings and  settings at different times, (in a predictable pattern) for millenia.

I just did address it.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2008, 05:24:19 AM »
good point...you talk about standard rotational models, but I am wondeing about the movement of constellations as they pertain to duration and times of year.  For example...Orion is visible in the evening from October to early January and in the morning from late July to November in the mid Northern latitudes.  Why is it not constant like the Big Dipper?

Damn, I'm tired...I hope this makes sense.

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Parsifal

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2008, 05:28:41 AM »
good point...you talk about standard rotational models, but I am wondeing about the movement of constellations as they pertain to duration and times of year.  For example...Orion is visible in the evening from October to early January and in the morning from late July to November in the mid Northern latitudes.  Why is it not constant like the Big Dipper?

Damn, I'm tired...I hope this makes sense.

I have already addressed that in this thread:

Obviously the sun orbits with a period of 24 hours and the stars rotate with a period of 23 hours 56 minutes. Or, in my model of a rotating Earth, the Earth rotates every 23 hours 56 minutes and the sun orbits with a period of 365.2425 solar days.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2008, 05:29:43 AM »
Hmm...how does the "chain" move from one cog to another?

Not being a smartass, just trying to understand the FET concept.
There is only 1 cog, and its rotation is slightly longer (or shorter, I'm not sure which best fits the scenario) than a day so that the constellations on it appear in different places during the course of a year.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2008, 05:37:42 AM »
There is only 1 cog, and its rotation is slightly longer (or shorter, I'm not sure which best fits the scenario) than a day so that the constellations on it appear in different places during the course of a year.

Shorter, by four minutes. As I have already stated twice in this thread, and numerous times in others.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2008, 05:38:11 AM »
Thanks fletch...that's what i was trying to address...

Obviously the sun orbits with a period of 24 hours and the stars rotate with a period of 23 hours 56 minutes. Or, in my model of a rotating Earth, the Earth rotates every 23 hours 56 minutes and the sun orbits with a period of 365.2425 solar days.


I got that part, but it doesnt explain the different times that some constellations rise and set when they do...especially on the celestial equator.

Nevermind for the moment.  I'm going to come back to this once I get some sleep.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2008, 05:52:16 AM »
So presumably these gears are observable. Please post up some evidence of them.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2008, 05:59:36 AM »
but it doesnt explain the different times that some constellations rise and set when they do...especially on the celestial equator.
But it does. If the cog with the stars on it is rotating 4 minutes faster than the sun is orbiting, then the stars will be rising/setting 4 minutes earlier every day. Thus in July you will see Orion in the early morning, in October it will be at midnight, and in January it will be early evening. In April it will be at midday, and is of course obscured by the sun, and so the evenings in that time of the year will show a different collection of stars.

Why would you presume the gears to be observable? The workings of a clock/watch are generally hidden behind its face.
Quote from: General Douchebag[/quote
If Eminem had actually died, I would feel the force realign.
Quote from: ghazwozza
Of course it doesn't make sense, it's Tom Bishop's answer.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 06:02:18 AM »
but it doesnt explain the different times that some constellations rise and set when they do...especially on the celestial equator.
But it does. If the cog with the stars on it is rotating 4 minutes faster than the sun is orbiting, then the stars will be rising/setting 4 minutes earlier every day. Thus in July you will see Orion in the early morning, in October it will be at midnight, and in January it will be early evening. In April it will be at midday, and is of course obscured by the sun, and so the evenings in that time of the year will show a different collection of stars.

Why would you presume the gears to be observable? The workings of a clock/watch are generally hidden behind its face.
So there is a wall in space that obscures the gears. So how far away is this wall. Please back up answers with evidence or sound theory.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 06:15:15 AM »
Also, how does the sun's radial "orbit" change, accounting for seasons.  Centrifigual effect...( Idare not call it a force here) would cause an orbit to become larger...but what is causing the sun's "orbital" radius to contract?

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2008, 06:39:26 AM »
Also, how does the sun's radial "orbit" change, accounting for seasons.  Centrifigual effect...( Idare not call it a force here) would cause an orbit to become larger...but what is causing the sun's "orbital" radius to contract?

In my model of a rotating Earth, the sun is orbiting in an ellipse with a period of 365.2425 solar days. Naturally, this will cause the seasons at its distance from the north celestial pole varies.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2008, 07:05:20 AM »
Also, how does the sun's radial "orbit" change, accounting for seasons.  Centrifigual effect...( Idare not call it a force here) would cause an orbit to become larger...but what is causing the sun's "orbital" radius to contract?

In my model of a rotating Earth, the sun is orbiting in an ellipse with a period of 365.2425 solar days. Naturally, this will cause the seasons at its distance from the north celestial pole varies.
And also it would also give the North Pole an Equatorial climate.

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2008, 07:43:51 AM »
how do the same stars stay in the south when viewed from australia all night, also be in the south from south america and africa all night too? 
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 08:18:55 AM »
And also it would also give the North Pole an Equatorial climate.

Please explain how you have come to this conclusion.

how do the same stars stay in the south when viewed from australia all night, also be in the south from south america and africa all night too? 

They are not the same stars, just different copies of the same patterns.
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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 08:40:05 AM »
They are not the same stars, just different copies of the same patterns.

I don't suppose you would be will to give some sort of proof of this?

Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 08:49:07 AM »
And also it would also give the North Pole an Equatorial climate.

Please explain how you have come to this conclusion.

how do the same stars stay in the south when viewed from australia all night, also be in the south from south america and africa all night too? 

They are not the same stars, just different copies of the same patterns.
 

so, theres 3 different sets of gears for each southern continent now?  and a separate one for new zealand too?  so that's 4 of them.  and oh, look from the west and east of australia in a flat earth model would be in 2 divergent directions too

If 'south' is a divergent direction, you would need a diferent set for every different place that someone looks south...



Red lines show the direction of south, green show the difference in angle if all of australia was looking at a single constellation. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 08:50:48 AM by lolz at trollz »
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Parsifal

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Re: The big gears in the sky
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 08:53:20 AM »
so, theres 3 different sets of gears for each southern continent now?  and a separate one for new zealand too?  so that's 4 of them.  and oh, look from the west and east of australia in a flat earth model would be in 2 divergent directions too

If 'south' is a divergent direction, you would need a diferent set for every different place that someone looks south...



Red lines show the direction of south, green show the difference in angle if all of australia was looking at a single constellation. 

No, each continent in the Southern Hemisphere converges on its own South Celestial Pole. Celestial south is divergent in the northern hemiplane, and convergent in the southern hemiplane. Geographic south, however, is always divergent, and unlike in RET celestial south and geographic south are not always the same.
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