Balloons

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Balloons
« on: October 26, 2007, 06:17:04 PM »
It's interesting that anyone can now buy a balloon and fly equipment into the upper atmosphere.

link: http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/

Stuff is pretty cool, might have some bearing on this debate.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 06:22:03 PM by crazyidiot »

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Torn Bishop

Re: Balloons
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2007, 06:20:22 PM »
In b4 teh lock.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2007, 07:38:48 PM »
Quote
It's interesting that anyone can now buy a balloon and fly equipment into the upper atmosphere.

link: http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/

We know about that already. Flat Earth Theory holds that there is elliptical curvature from the edge of space, one hundred miles in altitude. Any photograph showing a curved elliptical horizon from very high altitudes poses no affront to FE.

Curvature results from the fact that on a flat earth we are looking down at a circle. The Antarctic coast and other continents of the earth are still tens of thousands of miles away horizontally from the observer at an altitude of 100 miles (edge of space), and thus beyond the resolution of the human eye and merged with the line of the horizon, indiscernible and faded with the thickness of the atmosphere. This is why the view is limited to the immediate vicinity below the observer, and why the land fades into a blueish fog as it recedes.

We can confirm that we are looking down at the circle of the earth by noting that shots from amateur high altitude balloons show an elliptical horizon. If the earth were a globe, curving downwards in three dimensions, all curvature seen in photographs would appear as an arc of a circle. The only pictures which show the horizon as an arc of a circle are NASA's Apollo shots.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 07:51:49 PM by Tom Bishop »

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 08:55:31 PM »
After skimming your post, I have some points I wish to discuss. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the curved horizon line is due to the allegedly circular (disk) shape of the Earth?

If that's true then why is it curved so massively for Lake Huron and the coast while we see it at an altitude of 21,205 m?  :(

___________________________________
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2007, 09:10:26 PM »
Quote
If that's true then why is it curved so massively for Lake Huron and the coast while we see it at an altitude of 21,205 m?  :(

That image is deceiving. 21,205 meters is about 70,000 feet, an altitude far beyond anything reachable by commuter airliners. For instance, international flights fly between thirty to forty thousand feet.

The "lake" you see in the image is actually about the size of West Virginia. Lake Huron is the third largest lake on earth.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 09:25:18 PM by Tom Bishop »

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2007, 09:14:52 PM »
So your defense is they mislabeled the altitude and mistook the ocean for Lake Huron?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2007, 09:16:20 PM »
So your defense is they mislabeled the altitude and mistook the ocean for Lake Huron?

No, that's Lake Huron in the image. It's just that Lake Huron is about the size of a small ocean.

That's what a small freshwater ocean the size of West Virginia would like at 70,000 feet.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 09:23:55 PM by Tom Bishop »

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2007, 09:29:23 PM »
So your defense is they mislabeled the altitude and mistook the ocean for Lake Huron?
No, that's Lake Huron in the image. It's just that Lake Huron is about the size of a small ocean.
That's what a small freshwater ocean the size of West Virginia would like at 70,000 feet.

Ah, I was responding to your post before it was edited. In any case, lets say that the visible water in the picture is the size of West Virginia. Isn't that curvature still rather extreme? Imagine the US  in respect, let alone the oceans and other continents..  ???
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 07:26:06 AM »
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 04:36:21 AM by L0gic »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 07:55:56 AM »
We can confirm .....
Tom,

I don't wish to sound terrible unscientific about this but it is looking pretty shaky from your corner.  To not interpret this picture as the earth's curve (assuming the optics are pretty good) requires a huge leap in imagination (to put it politely).

MS.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 11:51:34 AM »
Quote
Ah, I was responding to your post before it was edited. In any case, lets say that the visible water in the picture is the size of West Virginia. Isn't that curvature still rather extreme? Imagine the US  in respect, let alone the oceans and other continents..  Huh

No. I'd say that if you are high enough to see entire states on your screen you are high enough to push the vanishing point back ten thousand miles or so.

Just because the other distant continents of the earth are beyond the resolution of the human eye or faded with atmospheric density, it doesn't mean that they are not there.

Quote
I don't wish to sound terrible unscientific about this but it is looking pretty shaky from your corner.  To not interpret this picture as the earth's curve (assuming the optics are pretty good) requires a huge leap in imagination (to put it politely)

The curvature portrayed in the image is still two dimensional. The Flat Earth model exists as a circle which curves in two dimensions. Your model exists as a globe which curves in three.

I cannot honestly say that I see curvature in three dimensions. Can you?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 12:39:21 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Moon squirter

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 12:51:10 PM »
The curvature portrayed is still two dimensional. The Flat Earth model exists as a circle which curves in two dimensions. Your model exists as a globe which curves in three.

I cannot honestly say that I see curvature in three dimensions. Can you?
Tom,

I can see what I believe to be the line of the horizon.  I can also see what I believe to be the blue layer of upper-amtosphere, above the horizon.  I can also see a dark region above the upper atmosphere.  The boundaries to all of these entities are curved.

Of course the picture is two dimensional; The elements within the picture are (for me) portraying a three-dimensional arrangement of land, horizon and atmosphere.

For me there is no suggestion of a projection of sunlight light onto a two dimensional circle.

MS


I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 01:30:20 PM »
No. I'd say that if you are high enough to see entire states on your screen you are high enough to push the vanishing point back ten thousand miles or so.

Just because the other distant continents of the earth are beyond the resolution of the human eye or faded with atmospheric density, it doesn't mean that they are not there.

I did not say anything about the continents not existing or what the distance the vanishing point is on an FE from that height. The curvature itself is too extreme to be the outer edge of the Flat Earth.

Where did you get those numbers from anyways? Did you just estimate that?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 01:32:15 PM by L0gic »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2007, 02:48:19 PM »
The curvature portrayed is still two dimensional. The Flat Earth model exists as a circle which curves in two dimensions. Your model exists as a globe which curves in three.

I cannot honestly say that I see curvature in three dimensions. Can you?

Tom,

These balloon pictures look strikingly similar to the bogus NASA space pictures you have talked about.

MS
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 02:03:21 AM by Moon squirter »
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2007, 04:36:44 AM »
bump.
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narcberry

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2007, 12:11:37 PM »

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Torn Bishop

Re: Balloons
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2007, 10:26:14 PM »

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 04:38:20 AM »
....... Bump.  >:(
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2007, 07:04:13 AM »
Bump.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: Balloons
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2007, 07:21:54 AM »
Poor Tom has run away.. shocking! oh wait.. not its not.  ::)
Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open.

*cough* Tom *cough*

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Gabe

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2007, 06:57:59 AM »
Bump.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
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The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2007, 07:07:22 AM »
What question is unanswered in this thread Yiak? Seems done to me.
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Gabe

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2007, 07:30:19 AM »
Quote from: L0gic
The curvature itself is too extreme to be the outer edge of the Flat Earth. Imagine the US  in respect, let alone the oceans and other continents.

Where did you get those numbers from anyways? Did you just estimate that?
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2007, 07:33:13 AM »
Too extreme for what? He's just making blanket statements.
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Gabe

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2007, 07:35:49 AM »
Too extreme for what? He's just making blanket statements.
:o   ....Did you look at the picture of Lake Huron?

« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 07:37:44 AM by Yiak »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2007, 07:38:40 AM »
Yes I did. What about it?
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Gabe

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2007, 07:46:50 AM »
Look at the size of the lake..... and now look at the curvature of the horizon.

That's not the edge of the FE that curved. That has to be 3-D curvature in order to be proportional to the continents existing.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2007, 07:51:41 AM »
It's clearly not the edge of the FE.

As has been stated many a time, seeing that curvature only proves that it appears that way.
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Loard Z

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2007, 07:55:48 AM »
Wait, why would it appear to be round if it is flat?
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Balloons
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2007, 08:00:38 AM »
Wait, why would it appear to be round if it is flat?

Why does Criss Angel look like he can levitate? Ad nauseam.

Short answer: unknown. But you're welcome to speculate. I, on the other hand, am going to bed.
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