Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong

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Chris Spaghetti

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Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« on: September 09, 2007, 07:14:00 AM »
This is, if the Sun be a spotlight shining down, should look

This is what (more or less, ignoring the little bumps around the edge) really happens based on this picture http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/pauletti/FES/map1.jpg

Ok, slight differences brought about through refraction or something, Mr Bishop. But what about the  southern summer day?

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The Terror

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2007, 07:38:10 AM »
If it was a spotlight it would only look like a circle from directly underneath, plus it would have burned itself up long ago

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 08:02:20 AM »
If it was a spotlight it would only look like a circle from directly underneath, plus it would have burned itself up long ago

The sun is actually a sphere in Flat Earth Theory. The effect of its light upon the earth is simply limited to a spotlight.

The question, "how is it that the earth is not at all times illuminated all over its surface, seeing that the sun is always several hundred miles above it?" may be answered as follows:--

First, if no atmosphere existed, no doubt the light of the sun would diffuse over the whole earth at once, and alternations of light and darkness could not exist.

Secondly, as the earth is covered with an atmosphere of many miles in depth, the density of which gradually increases downwards to the surface, all the rays of light except those which are vertical, as they enter the upper stratum of air are arrested in their course of diffusion, and by refraction bent downwards towards the earth; as this takes place in all directions round the sun--equally where density and other conditions are equal, and vice versâ--the effect is a comparatively distinct disc of sun-light.

Quote
Ok, slight differences brought about through refraction or something, Mr Bishop. But what about the  southern summer day?

After looking closer through the alleged images of the midnight sun, and I can say for certain that what is being seen isn’t the sun at all. What is being seen is simply the reflection of the sun occurring through a natural method.

A little while back this picture was posted on our forums as a photograph of the midnight sun. As I recall, the exact thread comment was something along the lines of “What the hell, that looks like a star!” Clearly, this portrayal of the sun is entirely out of line with what we are used to seeing. The everyday sun is usually in the form of a ball. A bit of explaining on both sides of the fence will be necessary for why the midnight sun looks like a multi-pointed Christmas star in each of its images throughout the internet.

As an analogy I’m sure that everyone here can think back and agree with me that when looking at the reflection of the sun bounced off the surface of a shiny car we will see this exact effect. The sun will be turned into a Christmas star. Why this happens, the exact physical process, is the result of an uneven reflecting surface. The point I am conveying is that the sun looks different in a reflection (star shaped) than it does when observed directly by the naked eye (ball shaped).

Now, as we are told, the midnight sun happens in the Northern and Southern polar regions. By necessity these two extremities will be a bit chilly, covered by tundra of ice and snow. The local polar atmosphere will be saturated with ice crystals. It is these ice crystals, inherent in the upper polar atmosphere, which can create the illusion of the midnight sun.

Indeed, sun illusions are widely known to occur in chilly areas. It is common in some parts of the world to see two suns in the sky simultaneously. From a popular astronomical discrepancy website the following is posted:

    “I was driving home the other day and I was observing the sunset as I have a habit of doing lately and it was cloudy. The thing I noticed was that you could definitely tell there were two light sources. One sun was already setting while another bright orb was still in the clouds. There were two suns in the sky!” — Nancy

The official explanation for these reflected suns is exactly what I’ve suspected; a high saturation of ice crystals in the upper strata. These reflected suns appear all throughout the day, usually during the winter months, moving through the sky. As the real sun moves, so does its reflection upon the upper polar strata. The reflected sun moves along the ice crystals of the sky, dancing slowly around the observer, over a period of 24 hours.

Such odd and vibrant effects are not uncommon in the polar areas. Due to the environment, and the ice crystals throughout the atmosphere, optical illusions are extremely common.

What should be down becomes up.

What was once expected becomes unexpected.

As every polar explorer could personally tell you, mirages and illusions of every sort are apparent throughout the day.

    "The land looks like a fairytale." — Roald Amundsen about Antarctica.

Path of Light

The path of the light of the sun when it is in its southern annulus would flow over the upper polar strata of the south, encircling the earth.

When the sun is in its southern annulus its light touches the ice crystals in the upper southern polar strata which circles the earth along the Antarctic coast. The rays of the sun are displaced and reflected along that reflective path. The light is bounced in every direction like a house of mirrors, creating a sort of perpetual day all along the Antarctic coast. This fact is further reinforced by accounts of polar explorers who tell us of a sort of perpetual day without a sun.

The powerful rays of the sun, bounced in every which way along the polar strata, will combine and amalgamate at various point creating a glare which might be mistaken for a sun. This is the "midnight sun" effect. This glare does not take place at any one specific point on the Ice Wall, but at every point. No matter the observer's location along the Ice Wall, he will see an amalgamated concentration of light creating a glare in the sky. If the observer follows the midnight sun he will never reach it, the glare will recede farther and farther back forever unreachable. Each sun is unique to the observer's location, a result of displaced light combining to a point.

As a weak analogy lets imagine a polished billiard ball in a room with a single light source overhead. As we turn the billiard ball the reflection, or glare, of the light will stay stationary. If we move our heads up and down or left to right to the ball the glare will move along the surface of the ball with our new vantage point. If we physically move the ball up or down or left or right the glare will move in tandem. At all points, no matter where or how much the ball is moved, there will be an area there the rays of the lightsource combines and forms a glare. If there are two observers in the room they will both see two different glares located at two different points upon the billiard ball.

The same effect happens with the midnight sun; no matter where the observer is located he will see a point where the sun's rays are compounded and banded together forming a starry glare in the sky overhead.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 08:04:26 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2007, 08:08:03 AM »
Aw cute, you quoted my star comment again Tom. But I've seen the midnight sun numerous times and the times I've seen it it looked like the sun, not like a star, not like an illusion. I have a photo if you want to see it.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2007, 08:28:09 AM »
Ummm, Tom, if the sun act like a spotlight, how come the spot is sometimes an oval?... No wait, all the time.

Sun coverage right now:







Ohhh, neato, added bonus because of the time of year!  It's a semi circle!

Fall Equinox is coming!  September 22!

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Gulliver

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2007, 10:21:30 AM »
If it was a spotlight it would only look like a circle from directly underneath, plus it would have burned itself up long ago

The sun is actually a sphere in Flat Earth Theory. The effect of its light upon the earth is simply limited to a spotlight.

The question, "how is it that the earth is not at all times illuminated all over its surface, seeing that the sun is always several hundred miles above it?" may be answered as follows:--

First, if no atmosphere existed, no doubt the light of the sun would diffuse over the whole earth at once, and alternations of light and darkness could not exist.

Secondly, as the earth is covered with an atmosphere of many miles in depth, the density of which gradually increases downwards to the surface, all the rays of light except those which are vertical, as they enter the upper stratum of air are arrested in their course of diffusion, and by refraction bent downwards towards the earth; as this takes place in all directions round the sun--equally where density and other conditions are equal, and vice versâ--the effect is a comparatively distinct disc of sun-light.

Quote
Ok, slight differences brought about through refraction or something, Mr Bishop. But what about the  southern summer day?

After looking closer through the alleged images of the midnight sun, and I can say for certain that what is being seen isn’t the sun at all. What is being seen is simply the reflection of the sun occurring through a natural method.

A little while back this picture was posted on our forums as a photograph of the midnight sun. As I recall, the exact thread comment was something along the lines of “What the hell, that looks like a star!” Clearly, this portrayal of the sun is entirely out of line with what we are used to seeing. The everyday sun is usually in the form of a ball. A bit of explaining on both sides of the fence will be necessary for why the midnight sun looks like a multi-pointed Christmas star in each of its images throughout the internet.

As an analogy I’m sure that everyone here can think back and agree with me that when looking at the reflection of the sun bounced off the surface of a shiny car we will see this exact effect. The sun will be turned into a Christmas star. Why this happens, the exact physical process, is the result of an uneven reflecting surface. The point I am conveying is that the sun looks different in a reflection (star shaped) than it does when observed directly by the naked eye (ball shaped).

Now, as we are told, the midnight sun happens in the Northern and Southern polar regions. By necessity these two extremities will be a bit chilly, covered by tundra of ice and snow. The local polar atmosphere will be saturated with ice crystals. It is these ice crystals, inherent in the upper polar atmosphere, which can create the illusion of the midnight sun.

Indeed, sun illusions are widely known to occur in chilly areas. It is common in some parts of the world to see two suns in the sky simultaneously. From a popular astronomical discrepancy website the following is posted:

    “I was driving home the other day and I was observing the sunset as I have a habit of doing lately and it was cloudy. The thing I noticed was that you could definitely tell there were two light sources. One sun was already setting while another bright orb was still in the clouds. There were two suns in the sky!” — Nancy

The official explanation for these reflected suns is exactly what I’ve suspected; a high saturation of ice crystals in the upper strata. These reflected suns appear all throughout the day, usually during the winter months, moving through the sky. As the real sun moves, so does its reflection upon the upper polar strata. The reflected sun moves along the ice crystals of the sky, dancing slowly around the observer, over a period of 24 hours.

Such odd and vibrant effects are not uncommon in the polar areas. Due to the environment, and the ice crystals throughout the atmosphere, optical illusions are extremely common.

What should be down becomes up.

What was once expected becomes unexpected.

As every polar explorer could personally tell you, mirages and illusions of every sort are apparent throughout the day.

    "The land looks like a fairytale." — Roald Amundsen about Antarctica.

Path of Light

The path of the light of the sun when it is in its southern annulus would flow over the upper polar strata of the south, encircling the earth.

When the sun is in its southern annulus its light touches the ice crystals in the upper southern polar strata which circles the earth along the Antarctic coast. The rays of the sun are displaced and reflected along that reflective path. The light is bounced in every direction like a house of mirrors, creating a sort of perpetual day all along the Antarctic coast. This fact is further reinforced by accounts of polar explorers who tell us of a sort of perpetual day without a sun.

The powerful rays of the sun, bounced in every which way along the polar strata, will combine and amalgamate at various point creating a glare which might be mistaken for a sun. This is the "midnight sun" effect. This glare does not take place at any one specific point on the Ice Wall, but at every point. No matter the observer's location along the Ice Wall, he will see an amalgamated concentration of light creating a glare in the sky. If the observer follows the midnight sun he will never reach it, the glare will recede farther and farther back forever unreachable. Each sun is unique to the observer's location, a result of displaced light combining to a point.

As a weak analogy lets imagine a polished billiard ball in a room with a single light source overhead. As we turn the billiard ball the reflection, or glare, of the light will stay stationary. If we move our heads up and down or left to right to the ball the glare will move along the surface of the ball with our new vantage point. If we physically move the ball up or down or left or right the glare will move in tandem. At all points, no matter where or how much the ball is moved, there will be an area there the rays of the lightsource combines and forms a glare. If there are two observers in the room they will both see two different glares located at two different points upon the billiard ball.

The same effect happens with the midnight sun; no matter where the observer is located he will see a point where the sun's rays are compounded and banded together forming a starry glare in the sky overhead.
False. The Midnight Sun looks like a normal Sun.

Reference: Virtual Tourist.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2007, 02:16:27 PM »
Quote
The path of the light of the sun when it is in its southern annulus would flow over the upper polar strata of the south, encircling the earth.

I stopped reading after you told us about light 'flowing'. This is not the Discworld, Tom. Unless you believe Earth has a standing magical field

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2007, 06:20:08 PM »
Quote
False. The Midnight Sun looks like a normal Sun.

Most images portray the midnight sun as a starry glare. If you happen to come across a sun that looks like a ball, well, that would be the actual sun.

It's a challenge to the Round Earther to explain why the midnight sun often looks like a starry glare.

Quote
Ummm, Tom, if the sun act like a spotlight, how come the spot is sometimes an oval?... No wait, all the time.

That's because you're flattening out a globe earth, dumbshit.

The sun's spotlight in FET takes the shape of a circle.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 06:23:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Midnight

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2007, 06:33:09 PM »
False. The Midnight Sun looks like a normal Sun.

No I don't.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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Gulliver

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2007, 06:46:23 PM »
Quote
False. The Midnight Sun looks like a normal Sun.

Most images portray the midnight sun as a starry glare. If you happen to come across a sun that looks like a ball, well, that would be the actual sun.

It's a challenge to the Round Earther to explain why the midnight sun often looks like a starry glare.

Quote
Ummm, Tom, if the sun act like a spotlight, how come the spot is sometimes an oval?... No wait, all the time.

That's because you're flattening out a globe earth, dumbshit.

The sun's spotlight in FET takes the shape of a circle.
From the link you provided:


Normal midnight sun.

Normal Antarctic Sun taken by tourist: Reference: VirtualTourist.

It's not a challenge to RE that the camera lens flare. It is a challenge to FE though to explain the austral midnight sun. Your lame attempt of magic reflections fails.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2007, 06:53:50 PM »
Quote
Normal midnight sun.

Normal Antarctic Sun taken by tourist: Reference: VirtualTourist.

It's not a challenge to RE that the camera lens flare. It is a challenge to FE though to explain the austral midnight sun. Your lame attempt of magic reflections fails.

That midnight sun looks like a glare to me. A simple reflection off of the ice crystals inherent in the upper polar strata.

What evidence do you have showing that this is the actual sun, that the sun behaves in the way predicted by Round Earth Theory, that the sun in the image is physical and not just a concentration of light?

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Trekky0623

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2007, 06:55:33 PM »
So if I had a flashlight or floodlight, I would be able to illuminate about a square mile?

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Gulliver

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2007, 07:50:35 PM »
Quote
Normal midnight sun.

Normal Antarctic Sun taken by tourist: Reference: VirtualTourist.

It's not a challenge to RE that the camera lens flare. It is a challenge to FE though to explain the austral midnight sun. Your lame attempt of magic reflections fails.

That midnight sun looks like a glare to me. A simple reflection off of the ice crystals inherent in the upper polar strata.

What evidence do you have showing that this is the actual sun, that the sun behaves in the way predicted by Round Earth Theory, that the sun in the image is physical and not just a concentration of light?
The RET predicts the location, both declination and right ascension, of the Sun by longitude and latitude, for every location on Earth. FET can't even predict sunrise in California tomorrow morning. That's overwhelming evidence that FET fails miserably. The observers recorded that they saw the Sun. You might as well face the music. The evidence is there.

You can't even draw a picture of the magic of your reflections. There's obviously a solar disc in every image. You're a jerk for not admitting it, but that's nothing new to those here in the Forum. Even TheEngineer says most everything you post is stupid.

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narcberry

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2007, 09:26:55 PM »
The sun is made of a dense fluid material that affects how it reflects the earths light. This makes the shape of the light change slowly.

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WorkOverTime

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2007, 10:00:46 PM »
If it was a spotlight it would only look like a circle from directly underneath, plus it would have burned itself up long ago

The sun is actually a sphere in Flat Earth Theory. The effect of its light upon the earth is simply limited to a spotlight.

The question, "how is it that the earth is not at all times illuminated all over its surface, seeing that the sun is always several hundred miles above it?" may be answered as follows:--

First, if no atmosphere existed, no doubt the light of the sun would diffuse over the whole earth at once, and alternations of light and darkness could not exist.

Secondly, as the earth is covered with an atmosphere of many miles in depth, the density of which gradually increases downwards to the surface, all the rays of light except those which are vertical, as they enter the upper stratum of air are arrested in their course of diffusion, and by refraction bent downwards towards the earth; as this takes place in all directions round the sun--equally where density and other conditions are equal, and vice versâ--the effect is a comparatively distinct disc of sun-light.

Quote
Ok, slight differences brought about through refraction or something, Mr Bishop. But what about the  southern summer day?

After looking closer through the alleged images of the midnight sun, and I can say for certain that what is being seen isn’t the sun at all. What is being seen is simply the reflection of the sun occurring through a natural method.

A little while back this picture was posted on our forums as a photograph of the midnight sun. As I recall, the exact thread comment was something along the lines of “What the hell, that looks like a star!” Clearly, this portrayal of the sun is entirely out of line with what we are used to seeing. The everyday sun is usually in the form of a ball. A bit of explaining on both sides of the fence will be necessary for why the midnight sun looks like a multi-pointed Christmas star in each of its images throughout the internet.

As an analogy I’m sure that everyone here can think back and agree with me that when looking at the reflection of the sun bounced off the surface of a shiny car we will see this exact effect. The sun will be turned into a Christmas star. Why this happens, the exact physical process, is the result of an uneven reflecting surface. The point I am conveying is that the sun looks different in a reflection (star shaped) than it does when observed directly by the naked eye (ball shaped).

Now, as we are told, the midnight sun happens in the Northern and Southern polar regions. By necessity these two extremities will be a bit chilly, covered by tundra of ice and snow. The local polar atmosphere will be saturated with ice crystals. It is these ice crystals, inherent in the upper polar atmosphere, which can create the illusion of the midnight sun.

Indeed, sun illusions are widely known to occur in chilly areas. It is common in some parts of the world to see two suns in the sky simultaneously. From a popular astronomical discrepancy website the following is posted:

    “I was driving home the other day and I was observing the sunset as I have a habit of doing lately and it was cloudy. The thing I noticed was that you could definitely tell there were two light sources. One sun was already setting while another bright orb was still in the clouds. There were two suns in the sky!” — Nancy

The official explanation for these reflected suns is exactly what I’ve suspected; a high saturation of ice crystals in the upper strata. These reflected suns appear all throughout the day, usually during the winter months, moving through the sky. As the real sun moves, so does its reflection upon the upper polar strata. The reflected sun moves along the ice crystals of the sky, dancing slowly around the observer, over a period of 24 hours.

Such odd and vibrant effects are not uncommon in the polar areas. Due to the environment, and the ice crystals throughout the atmosphere, optical illusions are extremely common.

What should be down becomes up.

What was once expected becomes unexpected.

As every polar explorer could personally tell you, mirages and illusions of every sort are apparent throughout the day.

    "The land looks like a fairytale." — Roald Amundsen about Antarctica.

Path of Light

The path of the light of the sun when it is in its southern annulus would flow over the upper polar strata of the south, encircling the earth.

When the sun is in its southern annulus its light touches the ice crystals in the upper southern polar strata which circles the earth along the Antarctic coast. The rays of the sun are displaced and reflected along that reflective path. The light is bounced in every direction like a house of mirrors, creating a sort of perpetual day all along the Antarctic coast. This fact is further reinforced by accounts of polar explorers who tell us of a sort of perpetual day without a sun.

The powerful rays of the sun, bounced in every which way along the polar strata, will combine and amalgamate at various point creating a glare which might be mistaken for a sun. This is the "midnight sun" effect. This glare does not take place at any one specific point on the Ice Wall, but at every point. No matter the observer's location along the Ice Wall, he will see an amalgamated concentration of light creating a glare in the sky. If the observer follows the midnight sun he will never reach it, the glare will recede farther and farther back forever unreachable. Each sun is unique to the observer's location, a result of displaced light combining to a point.

As a weak analogy lets imagine a polished billiard ball in a room with a single light source overhead. As we turn the billiard ball the reflection, or glare, of the light will stay stationary. If we move our heads up and down or left to right to the ball the glare will move along the surface of the ball with our new vantage point. If we physically move the ball up or down or left or right the glare will move in tandem. At all points, no matter where or how much the ball is moved, there will be an area there the rays of the lightsource combines and forms a glare. If there are two observers in the room they will both see two different glares located at two different points upon the billiard ball.

The same effect happens with the midnight sun; no matter where the observer is located he will see a point where the sun's rays are compounded and banded together forming a starry glare in the sky overhead.

                                           
People with poor depth perception tend to go the extra mile.

Picture taken from deep space!

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2007, 10:56:43 PM »
For fucks sake Tom, Gully is right about the midnight sun, just accept it!
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2007, 12:56:24 AM »
Quote
False. The Midnight Sun looks like a normal Sun.

Most images portray the midnight sun as a starry glare. If you happen to come across a sun that looks like a ball, well, that would be the actual sun.

It's a challenge to the Round Earther to explain why the midnight sun often looks like a starry glare.

Quote
Ummm, Tom, if the sun act like a spotlight, how come the spot is sometimes an oval?... No wait, all the time.

That's because you're flattening out a globe earth, dumbshit.

The sun's spotlight in FET takes the shape of a circle.

No Tom, no. see, this is why we have time zones, we know  how much of the Earth is illuminated at any one time. It's also why a flattening of RE is the ONLY way to expres FE because of what we know of the illumination pattern of the sun.

Now take yourself off my ship and implode

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divito the truthist

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2007, 10:58:17 AM »
Uh oh, Tom said dumbshit.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Visual evidence of why the FE sun is wrong
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2007, 11:03:38 AM »
the irony is palpable