Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon

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Splox

• 76
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« on: February 19, 2007, 04:51:12 AM »

I am curious how the sunsets can be explained as "too far to see" or an "optical illusion" if the sun (at  ~3000 miles high) can never get lower than ~7 degrees above the horizon.  That is assuming the greatest possible distance, if you're at the "ice wall" and the sun is directly above the other side ice wall 25,000 miles away.  This can't be compared to power lines fading down to nothing, its a completely different scale.

More realistically, and according to models I see here, the sun seldom gets lower than ~9 degrees above the horizon (this assumes you are standing at the "ice wall" and the sun is at the equator opposite from you.).  I get these numbers from basic trigonometry: arctan(3000/(3/4*24900))=9.12 degrees.

At this distance, the sun would have an angular diameter close to 6 minutes across (or .1 degree), easily viewable with the human eye ~9 degrees above the horizon.

Even if we were to assume the "spotlight" theory, the 32 mile wide underside of the sun, even 3/4 the diameter of the earth away would still be within the scope of vision of the human eye at just under 1 minute of arc (The human eye has a resolution of about 50 arcseconds.). Again this would be at ~9 degrees above the horizon, not smashed up next to it.

These calculations were done with the small angle formula found on wiki.

Any/All FE believer(s) are welcome to respond, as well as RE believers to add something I may have forgotten.

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absolutedisgrace

• 70
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2007, 05:21:50 AM »
Nice splox, you've saved me the trouble of figuring out the arc of the spotlight.  I was writing up a similar Q

I'm very intrigued at the answer.

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FEtheoryISretarded

Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2007, 08:47:27 AM »
This is the first thing I though of after reading the FAQ.

Basicly, earthlings would be able to see the sun from anywhere on a flat earth.. even if the sun wasn't shinning directly on them.

Also, the shape of the sun and moon should appear to change as they move over the FE.  If the spotlight is a cirlcular shape when directly overhead it would be more of an oval or elipse shape when far away.

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MooBs

• 574
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 08:50:30 AM »
You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.
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In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
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You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

Splox

• 76
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 02:07:03 PM »
I'm anxious for a resposne from a FE believer.

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bobparr

• 84
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 02:08:51 PM »
Your point is too good. You wont get one... Surprise Surprise
=================
The earth is round ... Period.
http://www.teenprogrammer.net

DonutGuard

• 152
• Deal with it.
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 02:08:57 PM »
They won't because you've found something that easily debunks their theory.

*EDIT*
Bobparr, are you secretly reading my mind? :lol:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; if there be one, he must approve of the homage of reason over that of blind-folded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson

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MooBs

• 574
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2007, 02:14:42 PM »
You cant use math in ure argument, only explanations based on no maths or science at all.
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In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
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You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

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Tom Bishop

Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2007, 02:22:45 PM »
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I am curious how the sunsets can be explained as "too far to see" or an "optical illusion"

Explained in Chapter 9 of the book Earth Not a Globe:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za27.htm

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Also, the shape of the sun and moon should appear to change as they move over the FE.

The sun is a sphere. Its light is limited to a spotlight.

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Basicly, earthlings would be able to see the sun from anywhere on a flat earth.. even if the sun wasn't shinning directly on them.

The sun is very small and very close to the earth. This allows the sun to only light one section of the world at a time.

DonutGuard

• 152
• Deal with it.
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 02:23:36 PM »
So is the sun a sphere, a disc, is it a spotlight, it is a cylinder?

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; if there be one, he must approve of the homage of reason over that of blind-folded fear."
-Thomas Jefferson

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Tom Bishop

Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 02:25:06 PM »
Quote from: "DonutGuard"
So is the sun a sphere, a disc, is it a spotlight, it is a cylinder?

I don't think any FE proponent believes the sun is a flat disk.

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MooBs

• 574
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 02:25:34 PM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote from: "DonutGuard"
So is the sun a sphere, a disc, is it a spotlight, it is a cylinder?

I don't think any FE proponent believes the sun is a flat disk.

Quote
In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
Quote
You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

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Tom Bishop

Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2007, 02:27:53 PM »
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It sometimes obscures the moon.

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MooBs

• 574
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2007, 02:28:31 PM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote

It sometimes obscures the moon.

Explain WITH EVIDENCE what it is, how it works, basically everything about it. Thanks.
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In FE Literature there are three celestial bodies that inhabit the sky. The Sun. The Moon. And the Shadow Object.
Quote
You have performed an illegal operation. Tom Bishop will now shut down, you will lose all unsaved arguments.

Splox

• 76
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2007, 02:31:42 PM »
This argument becomes even more sound if the sun is a sphere.  I thought I explained it well enough with the trigonometry.  The vanishing lightposts have a much greater proportion of distance to height at its vanishing point.  I am confident that in your model the sun would never appear any lower than ~7 degrees above the horizon. I refer back to the equation I gave in the original post.

The proportion of 'distance away' to 'height above the earth' is never greater than 8:1 (according to all your models), that would mean the sun is always higher than 7 degrees above the horizon.  Those "lamps" must have a much greater proportion to appear to vanish.  That is like claiming the eiffel tower vanishes at (1063*8 feet away), which means we shouldn't be able to see it from more than 2 miles away from it because it would have vanished into the ground.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 05:57:17 AM by Splox »

Splox

• 76
Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2007, 02:47:35 PM »
I hope you can at least agree that the eiffel tower can be seen more than 2 miles away.

Splox

• 76
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2007, 09:31:12 PM »
Unless math is a conspiracy too, I'm not sure this can be refuted.

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Xulfaeon

• 98
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2007, 10:26:09 PM »
The shadow object is a disk held in space by pixies. The government tells the pixies where to move it.

EvilToothpaste

• 2461
• The Reverse Engineer
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2007, 10:52:38 PM »
Unless math is a conspiracy too, I'm not sure this can be refuted.
Bullhorn wrote an interesting post on this subject:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2140.0

Splox

• 76
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2007, 11:18:32 PM »
What is the argument?  Any response about my eiffel tower analogy?

EvilToothpaste

• 2461
• The Reverse Engineer
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 11:27:18 PM »
I have no argument.  I really like your Eiffel Tower analogy; it works nicely.

You get 17 points.

Splox

• 76
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2007, 11:31:21 PM »
Thank You

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absolutedisgrace

• 70
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2007, 01:15:31 AM »
Bullhorns post was wrong due to scope.  You can make up any answer to anything with a reduced scope.  Imagine driving in your car and not being able to see out your side windows.  Just because you can't see the objects around you doesn't mean that part of the world isn't there.  His 1 + 1 raindow idea is the same problem.  Because he has not used a primitive term (primative is defind as no longer able to be broken down into smaller parts) he has been able to make wild conclusions.

Raindrop is undefined as well as a non-primitive form.  It cannot be used in mathimatics.  He is actually saying (X + Y = Z where, X,Y, and Z are all varients of raindrops) as each term is not given a specific value basis to work from.

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akira

• 415
• Round Earth Proponent
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2007, 01:27:25 AM »
No one has the knowledge and bravery to stand up and disprove this?

RE: 100
FE: 0.0000001 (from tom bishop)
GPS does not require satellites, fortunately it uses it.

Splox

• 76
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2007, 06:00:40 AM »
I'm glad some people are able to see this is pretty sound evidence debunking the FE sunset/sunrise theory.

Splox

• 76
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2007, 09:05:26 PM »
I'm curious to know what the reason is for the "spotlight" effect of the sun/moon, if any.

beast

• 2997
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2007, 02:58:51 AM »
You guys are forgetting to take into account the atmospheric distortion.  As the sun gets further away, it encounters more and more atmosphere for its light to reach us.  Because the atmosphere is curved, the light bends down.  Eventually the Sun reaches the point where the light is not pointed at us, and the light is bent passed us - such that it appears to set.

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Vauxhall the Vampire

• 2811
Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2007, 11:51:22 AM »
idiots, the earth is round, the "wall of ice" has never been found, if the sun was within a couple hundred miles of us we would burn up, how does the earth heat itself, gravity? where does all of the video proof come from of the flatness of the earth

Stop copy and paste'in dat shit

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not flat

Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2007, 12:28:37 PM »

Quote
Quote
Also, the shape of the sun and moon should appear to change as they move over the FE.

The sun is a sphere. Its light is limited to a spotlight.

If light is a sphere, why is it a spotlight then? This is nonsense.

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Tom Bishop

Re: Sun/(Moon) Significantly Above the Horizon
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2007, 12:30:01 PM »
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If light is a sphere, why is it a spotlight then? This is nonsense.

The sun is very small and very close to the earth. This allows the sun to only light one section of the world at a time. Hence, the spotlight effect.