Author Topic: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium  (Read 159770 times)

Offline Dioptimus Drime

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The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« on: November 13, 2006, 03:58:01 PM »
The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

Okay. There has been way too many threads asking about the same damned question, and too many people saying that the governments can't pull together a conspiracy as such, and what not. This will conclusively prove that it is entirely plausible, profitable and, hopefully, probable. Expect me to reference this any time you ask a stupid question about the conspiracy again.


First Topic:
How Can They Afford the Conspiracy?


Bribes
Let's look at this liberally (keep in mind these are probably near maximized estimates). Who actually kneeds to know?

Who DOES Need to Know:
NASA -- Okay, so the top three (at most) need to know, we'll say. These are the guys who actually are controlling the conspiracy, and maybe some of the profit is divided amongst them, but they don't need to be bribed to shut their mouths, and thus have no leverage amongst the others. If we say about three other people in NASA know about it, who are helping with image editing, video editing, and general coverage, but working closely with the top three.

RASA -- The Russians are just about equal if not more active in space exploration as the US, so we'll say these guys have six people helping out with the conspiracy as well. As a matter of fact, tag one more on, just because I'm generous. That leaves us with thirteen people.

China -- Yes, in 2003, China became the third country to independently send a manned spaceship into outer space. However, their space program isn't all that big. As a (very) liberal estimate, we'll say they need about three people. But why don't we tag on one more just to make sure I'm not cheating. That leaves us with seventeen people from the space exploration crews that need to know.

GPS Manufacturers -- I'm going to say they only need one person for this job. There's not really much to do. Machines make most of the chips, and I doubt all of the bosses of the companies need to even bother. They just need to have one guy saying, "Yup, that's right." This guy could even be one of the NASA or RASA members, honestly, but I'm being nice. This rings up to a comprehensive total of eighteen people.

Public Relations People -- NASA or RASA conspirators could fill this role, too, but again, generosity has the better of me, and I'm going to say that the conspiracy hires people to do this, too, since the guys in the space exploration teams are filled with a bunch of pale, pimply white guys, and therefore aren't good at convincing people of the truth. We'll say they need a couple of these guys, bringing the total up to a whopping twenty people.

People Who Have "Been In Space" -- Yes, they need astronauts saying, "Hey! I was up there!" But they're barely part of the conspiracy, they're just people who have a little bit of leverage, and therefore need a bit of bribing. We'll count them as half-people for this count, since they don't really count as conspirators. So, if we have somewhere around fifty people that have "been in space," that means that it counts for about twenty-five conspirators, therefore bringing our total to forty-five which is not as large as is commonly described.

Ice Wall Guards -- These guys don't need to be paid in full, either, as they're only guarding an ice wall. I believe that it was Erasmus who pulled some mathematics on this one, and showed that not that many people were needed to guard the ice wall. As they don't really have any leverage on the conspiracy, they won't count for this part (I'll go back to it later), since this is mostly about who needs to be paid to shut their mouths.


Who Does NOT Need To Know:

PotUS -- Why would the president need to know? All he knows is that he's giving money to what he thinks is a space exploration team, and then he sees exactly what everyone in the world sees on TV. He doesn't ever need to suspect a damned thing.

Members of Space Teams -- They see exactly what we see as well, but they're sitting on the ground looking at it "Live." That doesn't mean that they know that the people are actually in space, but they can make a really convincing argument towards it, perhaps.

Conclusive Mathematics:

Basically, I'm going to assume that every single person on my list wants to get paid so that they won't talk about the conspiracy. They're going to want a lot of it, too, most likely. Probably enough so that they won't have to work for the rest of their lives? Well, how's about something like one million dollars per year, plus one million in advance. That's far better than most jobs can fetch, and all they have to do is shut up. Minus the top five or so, since they are the runners of the organization.
That brings us to 40 x 1,000,000. Forty million dollars plus forty million every year? Sure, it's plenty of cash, but NASA receives so much more money than that from just governmental funds, and while I don't know much about Russian space teams, I'm sure they do, too. They can easily pay for this, and the undernoted requirements for money, without even breaking a sweat; in fact, they'll be probably pulling a profit, just from the government giving them cash.


Maintenance:

There doesn't need to be all that much maintenance, besides damage control. The space exploration programs have maintenance funds from their respective governments, so they're all self-sufficient without having to spend excess money on maintaining the conspiracy (seeing as all the cash they're not spending on research can be spent on the conspiracy).
The only reason extra money might need to be poured into the conspiracy would be for damage control. If we say that this would cost somewhere around five million per year, that still only leaves us with forty-five million per year.

*UPDATED*
Ice Wall Guarding:

If you would take note of Erasmus's calculations as far as guards go:

Quote from: Erasmus
Supposing for a moment that the government does guard it solely by posting men on it, these men are 150 in the air. From that hight they can see at least 15 miles in every relevant direction (this of course is calculating using the RE model... on a FE they might see farther). Thus you can cover the whole wall with just 78,225/30 = 2608 men.

You can decrease it further by giving them snowmobiles and having them ride between waypoints. If they can ride 10 mph and still keep an eye on things, then in one hour one sixth the previous number -- or 652 men -- can cover the wall in an hour. In fact, doing this gives them better coverage, since this way their 15-mile-radius field of vision doesn't have any holes.

Now take the terrain into account -- much of the Ice Wall is probably unapproachable except by air -- and you can trim down the numbers even further.

Strategically locate some helicopter pads (on the wall or floating) and you can have heavy armament on the scene in thirty minutes. Assuming an Apache helicopter can fly 150 mph, in that time they could fly 75 miles, so we would need to place pads every 150 miles, requiring 521 pads. Obviously, if you don't insist on thirty-minute response time, you can do with fewer. Don't forget that the watchmen can see 15 miles away from the wall, so thirty minutes should be more than enough to intercept any boat that tries to approach, snap pictures, and sail to safety.

Of course, this is all assuming that the only means our governments have of detecting trespassers is by looking with their eyes. We're neglecting radar and high-altitude spyplanes, probably with infrared cameras.

We're also neglecting intelligence. Anybody who wants to travel to the ice wall has to leave from someplace, and these someplaces can be watched by agents as well. There aren't too many good places to set on on such a journey from. Then, such expeditions would also have to be planned, and agents could get words about them before they even start. Once they've started, agents could monitor radio transmissions. If they can discover tresspassers a thousand miles away instead of only fifteen, then maybe they don't need so big a force as you say.


Now, I'm going to take this, and say that we need about one-thousand men guarding the wall, again with two shifts each, if we include cameras, infrared, radar, intelligence, and all that good stuff. This is more than I stated previously, but bear in mind that I had been very generous with the amount those men had been paid. Now, seeing as the men practically have no influence (all they do is guard an ice wall; it's not like it's probable they have a lot of friends at all, let alone ones in high places), they don't necessarily need a very grand rate of pay. Therefore I'm dropping my previous estimate to a simple one-hundred thousand dollars per person. That still leaves us with the same amount of two-million dollars to pay for every guard in the wall forces.


CONSPIRACY MONEY TOTAL = $47,000,000 USD (Forty-Million U.S. Dollars)


Second Topic:
How Does The Conspiracy Benefit?

This is not easily answered, but I've taken some insight into this and made some estimates on how the conspiracy could be making money:

Government Paychecks:
It's very possible that the conspiracy runs by just sucking money out of the government that they are underneath. Seeing as the head honchos in those governments don't have to know about the conspiracy, it'd be pretty easy to take money from the government. Also, even if the leaders DID know, it's tax money that's going into the space exploration research, so really, they'd still be pulling profit. Basically, if you chose to believe this option, the leaders of the conspiracy are taking tax money and getting filthy stinking rich off of it. Sounds like a motive to me.  

Display of Power:
Some people are control freaks. Maybe they get a rush from showing that they can change everyone's mind about the true shape of the Earth.

Embarrassment:
So, the government messed up at a really bad time to mess up, and they've been pooling all of the already-angry tax-payers' money into research that eventually led to a less-than-exciting discovery: The Earth is flat. Everyone was wrong. Millions (probably billions) of dollars of money that didn't really belong to them had been basically tossed down the drain for research of the round Earth, when, in fact it was flat. So, instead of angering people and possibly even sparking a revolt of some sort, they made up some stuff. And you know how lies tend to roll and get bigger and bigger until they're inescapable? I'd say a worldwide conspiracy is that concept...to the max.

Recruitment/Faithfulness:
Similar to the one above. Maybe the future-conspirators were ashamed that they hadn't reached out to space yet, and they felt that the people were getting hasty and impatient with them, so they decided to say they did it, and qualm the welling resentment of them, so they could ACTUALLY send people into space on a later date, without a bunch of morons knocking on their doorstep asking when they would be done with their space ship. Unfortunately, they later realized that they were wrong the whole time, and therefore had to uphold the conspiracy, lest they be accused of lying, and therefore reverting the resentment to its original state.


Third Topic:
What If Someone Squeals?

"Yes," you say, "but what happens when someone leaks the information?"

Why You WOULD Leak Conspiracy Information:

Fame:
You officially proved that the Earth is actually flat. You'll be in history books for ages!

Money:
Interviews with every news station and every magazine ever. You'll be a huge celebrity, and as such, you'll probably be making a fair amount of cash...at least for a little while.

Peace of Mind:
It's probably tough to keep that stuff in your head without leaking some of it out every once in a while. It'd be a lot on your conscience.

Why You Would NOT Leak Conspiracy Information:

Fame:
Some people don't like being in the spotlight all that much. Paparazzi can get annoying, and even though attention may appear to be entertaining, it can get old pretty fast.

Money:
You no longer get the big fat paychecks from the conspirators. After all of the press wears out, and starts ignoring you again--meaning no more cash from interviews--you'll probably have to start working again.

Peace of Mind:
You just screwed over all of your friends, just because you wanted a few minutes of fame and a lot of cash. Congratulations.

Insanity:
If you don't have enough proof, you won't be revered as a revolutionary, you'll be revered as Patient #3562 at the local mental hospital.

Death:
While a most likely uncommon side-effect, NASA could easily kill you and say, "He died in a space shuttle accident, I swear." Honestly, by the way it seems on TV, those things are so unstable, no one would ever EVER doubt that someone died while in space due to some random accident (add a bunch of jargon and you've got an incredibly convincing reason for death).


Topic Four:
Conclusive Notes:

As you can see, the conspiracy is not only logical, but it's, in its own way, actually quite plausible. With all of these concepts in your face, it's hard to refute AT LEAST the possibility of a conspiracy covering up the shape of the Earth. If anyone wants to rebuttal, though, I gladly welcome it (in fact, I'm probably missing a lot of stuff--but hey, I'm only one guy), and I'll add more to this compendium (hence why it's a compendium).


SO STOP MAKING CONSPIRACY THREADS!!



~D-Draw

Offline 7string

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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 06:53:02 PM »
Here's where this organization is going to fail. We are approaching a generation where it will cost about $1,000,000 for any average joe (millionaire) to go into space. Go into space yourself before you call astronauts bribed liars and try to disprove science. Actually, no FE'ers are scientists nor have any of them graduated from an Ivy League school. The engineer said "Well I'm an engineer, does that count?" - no, no it certainly does not because ur-anus is flatter than the earth is, even if you had a bubblebutt.
hy are people so stupid? i guess years of satelite evidence can't prove that the earth is round? satelites are a conspiracy? yea that's why we have cell phones and xm radio.

Offline Dioptimus Drime

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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2006, 07:01:10 PM »
Quote from: "7string"
Here's where this organization is going to fail. We are approaching a generation where it will cost about $1,000,000 for any average joe (millionaire) to go into space. Go into space yourself before you call astronauts bribed liars and try to disprove science. Actually, no FE'ers are scientists nor have any of them graduated from an Ivy League school. The engineer said "Well I'm an engineer, does that count?" - no, no it certainly does not because ur-anus is flatter than the earth is, even if you had a bubblebutt.

I don't know what average joe has $1,000,000. In any case, you're being incredibly ignorant. Just because I'm not educated as a scientist (yet), doesn't mean that my theories are completely irrelevant. You have to be one of the most narrowminded persons I've ever met, and I've been surfing this board for a while.

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Offline Nomad

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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2006, 07:54:49 PM »
This should be stickied D:
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8/30 NEVAR FORGET

Offline Max Fagin

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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 09:14:24 PM »
You are wrong about the number of people who would have to be in on the cospiracy.

You really think that 40 people could take fake the thousands of images that come from in from Hubble, the Mars Rovers, Cassini, Mars Global surveyor and all the weather satelites of Earth evey day?

You really think that 40 people could have created all the photographs from the apollo programs, in the days before image rendering software?

There are hundreds of other tasks which you have completelly ignored:  Flying the "aircraft" to fake satelite sightings, maintaining the radio transmissions to mimic the signals from satelites etc.

Your estimates are off by a factor of at least a thousand.
"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
-Flat Earthers

"Triangle ABC looks isosceles; therefore . . ."
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The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 10:39:16 PM »
Five hundred men to guard your "ice wall?" Do you think the world is, like, a hundred miles in its circumfrence, or something? Or would you plan on having one man to guard several hundred kilometers of land at a time?
o know, is to know you know nothing; That is the meaning of true knowledge.

By three methods may we learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; And third by experience, which is the bitterest.

Offline mjk

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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2006, 11:06:01 PM »
Quote from: "The Dragon Reborn"
Five hundred men to guard your "ice wall?" Do you think the world is, like, a hundred miles in its circumfrence, or something? Or would you plan on having one man to guard several hundred kilometers of land at a time?


obviously you havent found Erasmus's thread about guarding the ice wall either.  he based it on gaurds patrolling on snowmobiles from spaced out stations.  it made sense.  i'll have a browse for it in a tick and see if can link you guys.
quote="diegodraw"]you never mentioned anything about antagonizing naive idiots who have reason to believe they should defend what everyone already knows is logical....Not like anybody would ever have fun doing that, of course[/quote]

Offline TheEngineer

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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2006, 11:24:48 PM »
Ok, here is the link for Erasmus' calculations.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Offline phaseshifter

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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2006, 11:44:15 PM »
Right, pulling arbitrary numbers out of your ass is totally going to convince everyone.

If their goal is to make money they could just, you know, not spend any money into faking pictures and videos, not bribe anyone, not pay any ice guards, and not give a million dollar a year to people who still don't have to keep their mouth shut when they get the money. If I got a million bucks a year to avoid talking about something that big, how would they ever know it was me who talked? and why not just tell everyone on my death bed?

Another thing, you should check some basic economics, because giving that much money away every year would put so much of it in circulation that the U.S. dollar wouldn't be worth shit. (seriously, shit is worth something to some people, but that money actually costs something to print so it would be worth less than nothing)
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

Offline TheEngineer

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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2006, 12:00:45 AM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"


Another thing, you should check some basic economics, because giving that much money away every year would put so much of it in circulation that the U.S. dollar wouldn't be worth shit. (seriously, shit is worth something to some people, but that money actually costs something to print so it would be worth less than nothing)



The US puts 200 million dollars A DAY into the war in Iraq.  If that has not devalued the dollar how will keeping a few thousand guards and equipment at the ready do it?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Offline Earthisacube

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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2006, 12:18:59 AM »
George Bush believes the earth is flat and so does his administration. That is why Cheney shot that lawyer. They are taking down the Round Earthers one at a time.

Offline phaseshifter

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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2006, 12:31:53 AM »
There's an idiot that thinks the U.S. dollar hasn't dropped since the war started. Sure hope he doesn't live there, because  I sure noticed, and I don't.
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

Offline TheEngineer

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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2006, 06:50:11 AM »
Really?  Because where I live, my food costs the same, my car was still the same price, airline tickets are cheaper, gas is cheaper; I get either the same amount or more for the same price today than I did yesterday or last week.  Where do you live?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Offline Joseph Bloom

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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2006, 10:51:55 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Really?  Because where I live, my food costs the same, my car was still the same price, airline tickets are cheaper, gas is cheaper; I get either the same amount or more for the same price today than I did yesterday or last week.  Where do you live?


phaseshifter



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he Engineer and GeoGuy are douchebags. Period.

Also, they smell bad.

Offline Jveritas8

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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2006, 11:26:14 AM »
I just don't understand the point of certain things then.

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/hubble-ultradeep-desk-800.jpg

Why was that picture faked? What is the point?

What was the point of NASA claiming that they lost contact with Voyager 2? Why have they said they've discovered 40 new moons of Jupiter in the past two decades?

Why did they release a fake story about a new storm seen on Saturn?

Why make up stuff about the location of the Pioneer satellites? Why fake a picture of the earth from billions of miles away?

Why did they make up the fact that they just sent the New Horizons mission to Pluto? What is their motivation for continually telling the public of the launching of fake satellites?
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

Offline Masterchef

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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2006, 11:41:53 AM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"
I just don't understand the point of certain things then.

http://www.spacedaily.com/images/hubble-ultradeep-desk-800.jpg

Why was that picture faked? What is the point?

What was the point of NASA claiming that they lost contact with Voyager 2? Why have they said they've discovered 40 new moons of Jupiter in the past two decades?

Why did they release a fake story about a new storm seen on Saturn?

Why make up stuff about the location of the Pioneer satellites? Why fake a picture of the earth from billions of miles away?

Why did they make up the fact that they just sent the New Horizons mission to Pluto? What is their motivation for continually telling the public of the launching of fake satellites?

Don't you listen? NASA is doing all that because it is going to make them rich and powerful.

Offline GUN

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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2006, 12:21:54 PM »
Quote
Why did they make up the fact that they just sent the New Horizons mission to Pluto? What is their motivation for continually telling the public of the launching of fake satellites?


Bingo

Wouldn't it be simpler to say "We have decided to focus our resources on things besides space exploration" instead of spending billions on a rocket/sattelite/research?

The whole thing on bribes is pretty much pure bullcrap. Diego, how the hell do you know who the "top" people are, and how many they are? Also - RASA? You idiot, 'NASA' stands for North American Space Association. So 'RASA' is.......Russian American Space Association?
Also, if this RE theory is cooked up by the US government, why would Russians want to keep their secrets? Surly it would be in their interests to cause pandemonium for their number one enemy by pointing out the US goverment's lies.
And don't say they were working together - because then it would be a few more then the forty people you mentioned in on this.

Quote
Embarrassment:
So, the government messed up at a really bad time to mess up, and they've been pooling all of the already-angry tax-payers' money into research that eventually led to a less-than-exciting discovery: The Earth is flat. Everyone was wrong. Millions (probably billions) of dollars of money that didn't really belong to them had been basically tossed down the drain for research of the round Earth, when, in fact it was flat. So, instead of angering people and possibly even sparking a revolt of some sort, they made up some stuff. And you know how lies tend to roll and get bigger and bigger until they're inescapable? I'd say a worldwide conspiracy is that concept...to the max.


So FE'ers don't want to tell people the truth, they want to start a world wide panic?
Fucking terrorists.
But wait.......

Quote
Money:
You no longer get the big fat paychecks from the conspirators. After all of the press wears out, and starts ignoring you again--meaning no more cash from interviews--you'll probably have to start working again.


So in the middle of this revolt, things will suddenly settle down and you will have to get a job?

Quote
Government Paychecks:
It's very possible that the conspiracy runs by just sucking money out of the government that they are underneath. Seeing as the head honchos in those governments don't have to know about the conspiracy, it'd be pretty easy to take money from the government. Also, even if the leaders DID know, it's tax money that's going into the space exploration research, so really, they'd still be pulling profit. Basically, if you chose to believe this option, the leaders of the conspiracy are taking tax money and getting filthy stinking rich off of it. Sounds like a motive to me.


Hold on a sec - only 3 people at NASA are supposed to know about this. So what about all of the other thousands of workers? If they believe that space exploration is real, then they are expecting to do research. So wouldn't they question the fact that they don't see any of their budget, and that the 3 top people are suddenly billions richer (yes, NASA's budget is in the billions)?
Raa:
"Round earthers think that because someone made certain paragraphs famous and repetitive that they can fight to the death with fantasy."
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=6200.0

Ironic.....*cough*bible*cough*

Offline TheEngineer

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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2006, 12:24:12 PM »
Quote from: "GUN"
You idiot, 'NASA' stands for North American Space Association.

You should watch who you call an idiot.  NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Offline phaseshifter

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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2006, 12:28:05 PM »
Quote
So FE'ers don't want to tell people the truth, they want to start a world wide panic?
Fucking terrorists.
But wait.......


That part is hillarious :)
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

Offline Jveritas8

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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2006, 12:31:27 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "GUN"
You idiot, 'NASA' stands for North American Space Association.

You should watch who you call an idiot.  NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration.


Hehe :lol:

He got the S right :)
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.