Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty. 

The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

As above so below.

At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?
 
Regards
DL

Guess what? God does pundit the guilty. It's called hell. 

Your reply has nothing to do with the issue.

Is that how you show your morals? By running away and not showing them?

You do my work of discrediting your religion for me. Again.

Regards
DL

You said God could have chosen to punish the guilty, to which I replied he does.

You said God could have chosen to punish the guilty, to which I replied he does.

Ya. I saw him pull some dicks off od fornicators for 14 hours once.

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Regards
DL

Your video shows an episcopalian "pastor" claiming that hell doesn't exist. So what? It's not some invention of the church, there's a ton of scripture to support it.

Revelation 21:8, Matthew 10:28, Revelation 20:18,  Matthew 23:33,  2 Peter 2:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Matthew 13:50,  Acts 2:27, Luke 16:23, Jude 1:7, Hebrews 9:27, Psalm 145:20

But oh yeah the church just made up hell to scare people. It's not like it's mentioned countless times in The Bible or anything.

Give me a break

Your video shows an episcopalian "pastor" claiming that hell doesn't exist. So what? It's not some invention of the church, there's a ton of scripture to support it.

Revelation 21:8, Matthew 10:28, Revelation 20:18,  Matthew 23:33,  2 Peter 2:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Matthew 13:50,  Acts 2:27, Luke 16:23, Jude 1:7, Hebrews 9:27, Psalm 145:20

But oh yeah the church just made up hell to scare people. It's not like it's mentioned countless times in The Bible or anything.

Give me a break

You say the church did not create hell because hell is in the scriptures. Who created the scriptures if not the church.

Have a look.

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It is irrefutable that the church created hell.

Regards
DL

The scriptures were not written by the church, the church did not exist yet.


I've noticed something Gnostic. I like to quote scripture for my beliefs, you believe something based on nothing. I'm not going to watch a 2 hour video. Please explain to me how the church created hell. It's in the scriptures you see. Show me your evidence that the church created the scriptures. I know you don't like to back up your claims, but do it this once, for me.

The scriptures were not written by the church, the church did not exist yet.


I've noticed something Gnostic. I like to quote scripture for my beliefs, you believe something based on nothing. I'm not going to watch a 2 hour video. Please explain to me how the church created hell. It's in the scriptures you see. Show me your evidence that the church created the scriptures. I know you don't like to back up your claims, but do it this once, for me.

If the church did not produce the bible then who did and who forced the church to accept it?

Regards
DL

That's not evidence! Do you understand what evidence is?!?! Give me your evidence that the church created The Bible. No church is forced to accept The Bible, which is evident by all the satanist Gnostics and Catholics (with there apocrypha), who like to add books to The Bible. You guys are the ones who added books to The Bible!  The gnostic gospels are man made, apocrypha is man made! YOU'LL BURN IN HELL!!! Please know that I say this out of love and not hate, for I want you to renounce Gnosticism and come back to Jesus. If you don't answer with your evidence for the church creating The Bible, or answer me with a question without addressing my point, I will know that you have given up.

Grow up child.

Regards
DL

And yet you still refuse to give evidence for your outlandish claims that The Bible was created by the church.

And yet you still refuse to give evidence for your outlandish claims that The Bible was created by the church.

What is outlandish is your claim that it did not without telling us who did if not the church.

Your apologetics are not worthy of my time though so do not expect much more participation here.

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Regards
DL

The height of hypocrisy.  Start a thread and then claim you don't have time to rparticipate.

Too bad your are not bright enough to even recognize that you are not on topic.

Regards
DL

You're the one who posted the video of the pastor claiming hell was an invention of the church, but I'm off topic.


Maybe one day you'll accept Jesus

Not the satanic Jesus you follow.

I do like what this one teaches though. You will not as he demand that you not ride him as your scapegoat.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.
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This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.
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When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become fully human.

Regards
DL

See i follow the Jesus of The Bible.  You follow one that gnosticism made up.

Gnosticism is a false religion that will send you to hell.

Instead of avavoiding a proper response or calling me names give me proof that your Jesus is correct. I want you to explain it. Don't use a video as a excuse for poor debating skills

See i follow the Jesus of The Bible.  You follow one that gnosticism made up.

Gnosticism is a false religion that will send you to hell.

Instead of avavoiding a proper response or calling me names give me proof that your Jesus is correct. I want you to explain it. Don't use a video as a excuse for poor debating skills

Then engage properly and I will.

The Jesus or God you follow is promoting human sacrifice and being an example of that. Is that correct?

That is your God promoting the use of a scapegoat to get themselves into heaven. They say they cannot get there on their own.

The Jesus I know and follow says to us to pick up our crosses and follow him, not try to ride him as our scapegoat into heaven and says that we can get there on our own.

Which Jesus is the most moral and the best for us to emulate?

Regards
DL

Where do you get your " Jesus" if not from The Bible .

Where do you get your " Jesus" if not from The Bible .

I have a question on the board. Answer it and I will continue.

Regards
DL

The Bible was not produced by the church . The Bible was written by various authors over a period of time. Nobody forces the church to accept The Bible. If the Church(assuming it's a christian one) doesn't accept The Bible, then it ceases to be a (christian) church. The first three books of The Bible we're written by Moses. Is Moses the church. James was written by James, habbukkuk by habbukkuk, john wrote john. These men can't be considered the church.


There are some books the church did produce, those are called apocrypha.

The gnostic gospels were created by Gnostics, and don't qualify as Christianity.

Hey Gnostic, I answered your question, please do the same.
I have asked you a number of times what proof you have that the Gnostic Ghospels are divine, to which you post a link to a video becaus you can't defend it in your own words. Please explain to me without help from a 2 hour video why the gnostic gospels are divine.

Hey Gnostic, I answered your question, please do the same.
I have asked you a number of times what proof you have that the Gnostic Ghospels are divine, to which you post a link to a video becaus you can't defend it in your own words. Please explain to me without help from a 2 hour video why the gnostic gospels are divine.

Nowhere did I indicate that any gospel was divine. Especially not Gnostic Gospels.

Where did you see me say anything about the divinity of gospels?

All gospels are myth with messages. None should be read literally. Here is why.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

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When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

 Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

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They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

 African witches and Jesus
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 Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

 Death to Gays.
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 For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

 Regards
 DL

You accused christians of burning your scriptures. But if they aren't divine, it doesn't really matter does it.  I see you posted a couple more videos to help you with your poor arguing skills.

BTW, homosexuality is an abomination. I Woudnt advocate the death penalty, but it should not be accepted in society. If this is your example of literalism gone amok, then you're barking up the tree. Reason being I am a literalist. I take every word of The Bible literally, taking into account the New Testament suppercedes the old.

I noticed that you didn't respond to the part here I listed multiple authors of The Bible, and aksed you if these men were the church. I understand you selectively responded because I proved your outlandish claim false.

Please Gnostic come back to the real Christ