Impossible flight times on flat earth map

 A quick Kayak search shows the following non-stop flight times:

- Sydney, Australia to Santiago, Chile: 12 hours, 40 minutes
- Madrid, Spain to Santiago, Chile: 13 hours, 35 minutes

Now take a look at the flat earth map below.  Draw a straight line between these two pairs of cities.  Syndey to Santiago is about double the distance of Madrid to Santiago, yet the actual flight time from Sydney is SHORTER.  How do flat earthers explain this? 

Won't any flat earther propose an explanation for the inconsistency between their map and the cited flight times?

Their only explanation is that the map you posted is not the real map. They don't have a real map so they use that excuse to hide behind.

Still waiting for an answer -- any answer -- from a flat earther.  In the meantime I will continue to think that it must be of great concern to flat earthers that they can't come up with any map that is consistent with known distances between continents.

Still waiting for an answer -- any answer -- from a flat earther.  In the meantime I will continue to think that it must be of great concern to flat earthers that they can't come up with any map that is consistent with known distances between continents.

You've not received an answer to your query because you posted in Flat Earth Debate.  No one wants to debate this because it's asked all the time.  Use the search function if you want to see our answers, post it in FE Q&A if you want answers, or come up with something interesting to debate if you want a debate.

Quote from: FlatAllTheWay on August 18, 2014, 05:36:24 PM

Still waiting for an answer -- any answer -- from a flat earther.  In the meantime I will continue to think that it must be of great concern to flat earthers that they can't come up with any map that is consistent with known distances between continents.

You've not received an answer to your query because you posted in Flat Earth Debate.  No one wants to debate this because it's asked all the time.  Use the search function if you want to see our answers, post it in FE Q&A if you want answers, or come up with something interesting to debate if you want a debate.

No, the reason that no flat earther wants to debate this is that the flat earth model has no explanation for why all measured distances between continents match up perfectly with the round earth model and not with any flat earth model.

Quote from: Pongo on August 19, 2014, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: FlatAllTheWay on August 18, 2014, 05:36:24 PM

Still waiting for an answer -- any answer -- from a flat earther.  In the meantime I will continue to think that it must be of great concern to flat earthers that they can't come up with any map that is consistent with known distances between continents.

You've not received an answer to your query because you posted in Flat Earth Debate.  No one wants to debate this because it's asked all the time.  Use the search function if you want to see our answers, post it in FE Q&A if you want answers, or come up with something interesting to debate if you want a debate.

No, the reason that no flat earther wants to debate this is that the flat earth model has no explanation for why all measured distances between continents match up perfectly with the round earth model and not with any flat earth model.

Yep, that's it.  Contrary to the, (dare I say thousands?  Yes, I dare.) thousands of responses to this notion on these forums, you claim that we have no responses.  This statement you make is in direct and demonstrable contradiction to proof on this very webpage!  Proof sitting right before your eyes hidden not behind passworded walls, hidden not under layers of clicking, perhaps not even hidden beyond the use of a simple scroll of the mouse wheel.  At the time of this post, your very question is raised just five, five, posts below this one.  Sure the nuances are different, but it's the same idea: travel times don't fly on a flat-earth.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61992.0#.U_StzsVdWGc

Furthermore, it seems that you posted in that very thread!  I don't see how I can consider you anything other than a troll at this point.

Is the purpose of your lengthy rant above to make it appear that you have answered the question?  My question is very straightforward, and I have not seen it answered anywhere on this forum, although somewhat similar questions have been posed with similarly lacking responses from the FE community.

So please humor me and explain (again?) how any FE map can account for the fact that the actual flight time from Madrid to Santiago is longer than the time from Sydney to Santiago.

Uggg, please see this post:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.msg1629590#msg1629590

Uggg, please see this post:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.msg1629590#msg1629590

So now you're saying that you won't answer a question which is asked all the time because it is asked all the time, while no reasonable answer other than(not very reasonable) "conspiracy" is given? Good job indeed...

Quote from: Pongo on August 20, 2014, 08:07:01 AM

Uggg, please see this post:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.msg1629590#msg1629590

So now you're saying that you won't answer a question which is asked all the time because it is asked all the time, while no reasonable answer other than(not very reasonable) "conspiracy" is given? Good job indeed...

This is Flat Earth Debate, not Flat Earth Make You Feel Good or Flat Earth Cater to Your Beck and Call.  I'm explaining why no one is answering this thread.  I know you, and the other round-earthers here, think it's because you've deftly checkmated us and we are cowering behind walls of ignorance with our fingers in our ears screaming to keep away what you call truth, but that's simply not so.  You perceive this silence to grow your argument's clout as each refresh shows no replies answering your question.

If you want a gold medal for participation that you can show your friends and a story to proudly tell your grandchildren about the time you vanquished the last of the flat-earthers then leave now.  Mission accomplished.  However, if you want the truth, then spend the excruciating 15 seconds it's going to take to use our search function and learn the answer for yourself.  What you're doing now is the equivalent of walking into the physics department of your local college and shouting, "TEACH ME PHYSICS."  Then, when you get no takers you start the Carlton Dace and again shout, "WHAT NO ANSWERS?!!? PHYSICS IS WRONG!!!!"  THEN, when pointed to the library you demand that it be explained to you right here, right now.  You don't care that the person pointing you to the library has already written extensively on the topic (And, in fact, the whole department has) you instead demand again that they either explain physics to you right then and there or it's proof that physics is wrong.  Now, imagine a new person walks in and does this every day, imagine that some people come back after it's already been explained to them, imagine some people have been showing up for years shouting the same thing each day.

Now imagine that the college is a message board and the professors aren't getting paid to be there.  Imagine that they spend their time patiently answering these questions for people that refuse to use the search function as if it's poison.  Imagine how staggeringly rude and condescending you sound...

Rather than spend 15 minutes composing your latest diatribe, you probably could have spent just 5 minutes and answered my question.

Asking you to explain a very simple aspect of FE theory is not at all like asking someone to "explain physics".  The former should take only a paragraph or so, while the latter requires dozens or hundreds of books.  The purpose of this forum is to debate the kinds of questions posed in this topic, is it not?  If posting questions and debating the answers is not what this forum is about, then what are we doing here?

Now, once again, I ask you to describe or show a flat earth map that accounts for the known distances between the continents.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.msg1629689#msg1629689

Pay close attention to the second paragraph.  It's allegorical but don't let that stop you.

Verified distances and flight times do not fit in with any flat earth map.

Discuss.

You are never going to get a straight answer on this question from any flat earther simply because they have no map which represents the earth in its true shape .

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61991.msg1629689#msg1629689

Pay close attention to the second paragraph.  It's allegorical but don't let that stop you.

And I believe that it was stated why the allegory did not work. 

You've not received an answer to your query because you posted in Flat Earth Debate.  No one wants to debate this because it's asked all the time.  Use the search function if you want to see our answers, post it in FE Q&A if you want answers, or come up with something interesting to debate if you want a debate.

Fine. After searching and reading a bit in different threads related to the issue, I have found two stances assumed by the FErs:

1. There is no correct FE map. Sigh... Then why don't you all simply remove this polar projection from your site, as it is pretty obviously flawed?

2. There exists a strange, quasi-relativistic effect called "associative time dilation", where being in flight causes the time flow in the following ways:
a) to you, on the plane, it looks like the flight takes X time
b) to people on the ground, it also looks like your flight takes X time
c) time somehow flows faster for the people on the plane - why doesn't it then look like the flight takes more time for the person flying? I have no idea.
d) reality somehow "catches up" itself again after landing, so both sides experience the same flight time, while in fact(I have no idea what this phrase actually would mean here) it took longer than actually perceived by anyone.

First of all, I have no idea how this second thing would work to give an effect of planes magically speeding up while still going a regular speed, and second, why such a description would even explain the observed effect of planes travelling similar distances on both sides of the equator.
On a side-note, feel free to guess who came up with such an elaborate explanation. And it would be nice if Pongo replied if this is what he considers a valid answer, and if so - if he could explain why does it seem to work much stronger when flying along the "edge", closer to it, and not in other places or directions.


Oh, and another explanation - by the same creator - is that on the southern hemisphere, there live some creatures which help travel at times fitting a RE.

Like the idea. Must be them kangaroo's that get em hopping.

From past computer experience with the FAA I wonder how those ATC computers are progammed to show the distances, speeds and flight times in the southern hemisphere hemiplane ? I suppose this is also part of the Conspiracy . Probaby that information was only avaiable to persons with an Ultra Top Secret Clearance so the ordinary controllers and technicians were unaware of it.

Quote from: FlatAllTheWay on August 18, 2014, 05:36:24 PM

Still waiting for an answer -- any answer -- from a flat earther.  In the meantime I will continue to think that it must be of great concern to flat earthers that they can't come up with any map that is consistent with known distances between continents.

You've not received an answer to your query because you posted in Flat Earth Debate.  No one wants to debate this because it's asked all the time.  Use the search function if you want to see our answers, post it in FE Q&A if you want answers, or come up with something interesting to debate if you want a debate.

 

It has been asked many times but never answered....Intelligently, that is.

Okay, it was funny at first, but now it's just old. Will someone on the flat earth side- ANYONE, even Sceptimatic- simply answer the questions set above. I don't want any links, or photos, or even sarcastic comments from the other guys- either give us an answer, or just assume FlatAllTheWay has won.

1. There is no correct FE map. Sigh... Then why don't you all simply remove this polar projection from your site, as it is pretty obviously flawed?

We leave it there because many people have a very hard time even fathoming the concept of a flat-earth.  It helps people get an idea of how a flat-earth works much like how diagrams of atoms (the ones that look like solar systems) are known to be flawed but are still printed for help in understanding a concept.

Then can you tell us how it works? Answer the question.

Quote from: Macpie on August 20, 2014, 02:57:50 PM

1. There is no correct FE map. Sigh... Then why don't you all simply remove this polar projection from your site, as it is pretty obviously flawed?

We leave it there because many people have a very hard time even fathoming the concept of a flat-earth. 

Really?  It seems pretty fucking straightforward, after all you only have to "look out of your window" to see the flat earth. 

Which bits of the "concept" do people get confused about exactly?  The flat bit?  The earth bit?

Then can you tell us how it works? Answer the question.

I'm sorry, did you mean to say, "Answer the question, please?"

Quote from: Pongo on August 21, 2014, 10:53:42 AM

Quote from: Macpie on August 20, 2014, 02:57:50 PM

1. There is no correct FE map. Sigh... Then why don't you all simply remove this polar projection from your site, as it is pretty obviously flawed?

We leave it there because many people have a very hard time even fathoming the concept of a flat-earth. 

Really?  It seems pretty fucking straightforward, after all you only have to "look out of your window" to see the flat earth. 

Which bits of the "concept" do people get confused about exactly?  The flat bit?  The earth bit?

Yeah, lol.  I agree.  I'm always stunned when people say they don't understand the concept of a flat-earth.  I'm not sure exactly what trips them up, but I'm surprised you haven't seen it.  It's not exactly rare.  Thankfully we have the conceptual map in the FAQ to give people an idea.

Quote from: Anonymous on August 21, 2014, 10:59:00 AM

Then can you tell us how it works? Answer the question.

I'm sorry, did you mean to say, "Answer the question, please?"

No. I did not. We're already past that. Just answer the stupid question so we can wrap this debate up instead of dragging it on for another 10 pages. You guys need to stop dodging questions. PLEASE.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on August 21, 2014, 11:10:03 AM

Quote from: Pongo on August 21, 2014, 10:53:42 AM

Quote from: Macpie on August 20, 2014, 02:57:50 PM

1. There is no correct FE map. Sigh... Then why don't you all simply remove this polar projection from your site, as it is pretty obviously flawed?

We leave it there because many people have a very hard time even fathoming the concept of a flat-earth. 

Really?  It seems pretty fucking straightforward, after all you only have to "look out of your window" to see the flat earth. 

Which bits of the "concept" do people get confused about exactly?  The flat bit?  The earth bit?

Yeah, lol.  I agree.  I'm always stunned when people say they don't understand the concept of a flat-earth.  I'm not sure exactly what trips them up, but I'm surprised you haven't seen it.  It's not exactly rare.  Thankfully we have the conceptual map in the FAQ to give people an idea.

It might be that it all is inconsistent, sometimes contradicting itself. I like the idea of thought experiments and such things, which is why I like to question jroa or Scepti about details of their theories, sometimes thinking up stuff which seems pretty reasonable and would patch some holes here and there.

I think people have a hard time visualizing it because in some places it contradicts observations and requires a growing amount of unlikely explanations to make the incomplete model work. Like sunset: it looks like the Sun hides behind/below Earth, which is not possible on FE. Then you hear "perspective" or "too much atmosphere". What comes to mind is it should get way smaller or much more diffused. Then "atmospheric lensing" comes up. Now the person should have a problem with how the Sun should never get lower than X above the ground and vanish, rather than hide behind something, and hears "refraction" or "bendy light" etc. I hope you see that forming a working FE model inside one's head requires a large number of consecutive explanations which are rather unlikely given everyday observations.

Yeah, lol.  I agree.  I'm always stunned when people say they don't understand the concept of a flat-earth.  I'm not sure exactly what trips them up, but I'm surprised you haven't seen it.  It's not exactly rare. 

If it's not rare, then you should be able to provide some examples of this major retartation?

I don't think anyone finds it difficult to understand the concept of a flat earth.  But understanding a concept is one thing; accepting it as fact without any supporting evidence is another.  For a model to work, it has to explain the indisputable facts, such as the known distances between continents.  Please show or describe a flat earth map that satisfies this basic requirement.