# Proofs for alternate concept of Earth

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2014, 03:41:39 AM »
The barrelling is only so the bubble wont display as elongated in a short length vial.
The bubble doesn't race to the end of the tube as soon as you tilt the level by, say, 2*, which should happen if the curvature's only function was to make the bubble shorter. Which by the way it doesn't, the surface tension keeps the bubble roughly spherical/bean shaped at such small scale, not the shape of the tube. The bubble still keeps a similar shape in a straight tube, maybe a little bit longer. Definitely not going a full length.
Curvature of the vial is only a means to dull the  bubbles sensitivity of progression & provide easer readability at angel length.
Yes, that's pretty much the point of it. What is your problem with it now?
There's no problem ,it proves the earth is flat. I was Just gathering a few peanuts. A boring necessity of getting  an ordnance watching before the main show of . Slowly slowly catching the monkeys.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:44:51 AM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2014, 04:05:21 AM »
Proves nothing.

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2014, 04:36:20 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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#### Macpie

• 245
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2014, 05:00:50 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
Charlie, this is another fail of yours. Do you realize how immeasurably tiny the difference between the middle and end of a tube this short would be? The RE is around 40 Mm in circumference, while the tube is at best like 2 or 3 cm long. The "height difference" is almost non-existent.

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2014, 05:14:57 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
The bubble goes to the higest point on a spherical earth, the centre of the vial.

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2014, 05:25:21 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
Charlie, this is another fail of yours. Do you realize how immeasurably tiny the difference between the middle and end of a tube this short would be? The RE is around 40 Mm in circumference, while the tube is at best like 2 or 3 cm long. The "height difference" is almost non-existent.
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2014, 05:27:54 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
Charlie, this is another fail of yours. Do you realize how immeasurably tiny the difference between the middle and end of a tube this short would be? The RE is around 40 Mm in circumference, while the tube is at best like 2 or 3 cm long. The "height difference" is almost non-existent.
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
You are going off topic.  A level is barrel shaped, the bubble goes to the top. Simple.

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2014, 05:42:26 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.
Charlie, this is another fail of yours. Do you realize how immeasurably tiny the difference between the middle and end of a tube this short would be? The RE is around 40 Mm in circumference, while the tube is at best like 2 or 3 cm long. The "height difference" is almost non-existent.
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
You are going off topic.  A level is barrel shaped, the bubble goes to the top. Simple.
I'm going off topic. No!!!, you just dont understand different types of purpose made levels & accordingly  shaped bubble vials.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 05:44:07 AM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2014, 05:48:19 AM »
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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#### Macpie

• 245
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2014, 06:08:20 AM »
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
Maybe you will answer something first, that will help a lot. What is the smallest angle you can reasonably measure with a level? More or less, it doesn't have to be precise number. 1 degree? 0,1 degree?

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#### Alpha2Omega

• 3952
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2014, 06:48:46 AM »
Proves nothing.
Yes it does. When held level the bubble would form at each end of the vial & not centre, If the earth was spherical .  Straight vial curved vial or barrel vial. Held at level it proves the earth to be flat.

If the vial is convex upward, why would bubbles form at both ends, regardless of the shape of the earth?  The bubble simply floats to the highest point - wherever that is in the vial. One of the "tried & true proven principles" you mentioned earlier.

And that segues right into...
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.

It's easy.  If the vial is shaped as a circular arc, tilting the level rotates the circle that the arc is part of and the bubble moves to the new highest point.    Tilting the level by 1 degree will cause the circle to rotate by 1 degree, and the bubble moves 1/360 of the circumference of the circle, or d = 2*pi*r / 360.  d is distance the bubble moves, r is the radius of the circular arc, and, just to be clear, * means multiplication and / means division. I presume you know the meaning of pi in this context.

For example, if the radius of the curved vial is 1 meter, a 1 degree tilt would cause the bubble to move:

d = 2 * pi * 1m / 360 = 6.283 m / 360 = 0.0175m, or 1.75 cm.  Two degrees would be twice this, etc.

The larger the radius, the more the bubble moves for a given tilt.

Edit: add worked-out example (oops... corrected off by a decimal point in the example).
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 07:10:46 AM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

#### markjo

• Content Nazi
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##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2014, 07:00:10 AM »
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
For the most part, you don't.  A level is used to establish a reference of zero degrees (i.e. level).  You use a protractor, or other such device, to measure degrees of an angle.

Now tell me Charles, what do you suppose a spirit level would read if you placed it on top of this:
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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#### Son of Orospu

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##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2014, 07:48:39 AM »
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
Maybe you will answer something first, that will help a lot. What is the smallest angle you can reasonably measure with a level? More or less, it doesn't have to be precise number. 1 degree? 0,1 degree?

Is this a precision level, laser level, or the standard construction type level?

#### Rama Set

• 6877
• I am also an engineer
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #73 on: August 13, 2014, 07:59:03 AM »
A spirit level.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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#### Macpie

• 245
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #74 on: August 13, 2014, 08:34:01 AM »
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
For the most part, you don't.  A level is used to establish a reference of zero degrees (i.e. level).  You use a protractor, or other such device, to measure degrees of an angle.
To be honest, I have seen a few levels with rotatable circular "sockets" for the tube with the bubble, with a 360*, scaled circle drawn around, which let you measure any vertical angle, not only 0/90.

#### JimmyTheCrab

• 8258
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2014, 09:27:12 AM »
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
Maybe you will answer something first, that will help a lot. What is the smallest angle you can reasonably measure with a level? More or less, it doesn't have to be precise number. 1 degree? 0,1 degree?

Is this a precision level, laser level, or the standard construction type level?

edit to fix quote
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:38:30 AM by jroa »
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#### Macpie

• 245
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2014, 09:40:11 AM »
I will ask it again .How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.
Maybe you will answer something first, that will help a lot. What is the smallest angle you can reasonably measure with a level? More or less, it doesn't have to be precise number. 1 degree? 0,1 degree?

Is this a precision level, laser level, or the standard construction type level?
Any level, right now. Let's say one that doesn't cost more that a thousand \$.

#### ausGeoff

• 6091
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2014, 07:28:03 AM »
The barrelling is only so the bubble wont display as elongated in a short length vial. curvature of the vial is only a means to dull the  bubbles sensitivity of progression & provide easer readability at angel length.
Nope.  Totally wrong.  Ask any house builder.

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Hand me a even cylindrical bottle. I will fill it with water leaving a small air pocket before I seal it & I will  be able to lay you a level brick wall using the bottle.
Nope.  Wrong again.  Why do professional bricklayers spend around \$200 on a spirit level if a free bottle filled with water would do the job?  And no; you won't be able to lay a level brick wall using a bottle of water.  The idea's laughable.

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The principle doesn't change & Geoff can you stop calling me poor. Your making me feel as though the salvation army is going to be knocking on my door any minute now. With a blanket & a hot bowl of soup.

Of course the "principle" changes Charles.  Don't you understand that it's the curving or the bowing of the level's vial that makes it function as a "level"?  Apparently not.

#### ausGeoff

• 6091
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2014, 07:49:14 AM »
How do you explain being able to use a level to work out precise degree's of angle.

With a spirit level like this one (known as a clinometer):

—You're welcome Charles.

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#### guv

• 1132
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2014, 05:54:41 PM »
My spirit level is stuffed because I give up drinking rum 30 years ago.

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2014, 05:28:52 AM »
The barrelling is only so the bubble wont display as elongated in a short length vial. curvature of the vial is only a means to dull the  bubbles sensitivity of progression & provide easer readability at angel length.
Nope.  Totally wrong.  Ask any house builder.

Quote
Hand me a even cylindrical bottle. I will fill it with water leaving a small air pocket before I seal it & I will  be able to lay you a level brick wall using the bottle.
Nope.  Wrong again.  Why do professional bricklayers spend around \$200 on a spirit level if a free bottle filled with water would do the job?  And no; you won't be able to lay a level brick wall using a bottle of water.  The idea's laughable.

Quote
The principle doesn't change & Geoff can you stop calling me poor. Your making me feel as though the salvation army is going to be knocking on my door any minute now. With a blanket & a hot bowl of soup.

Of course the "principle" changes Charles.  Don't you understand that it's the curving or the bowing of the level's vial that makes it function as a "level"?  Apparently not.
No Geoff your laughable & Actually its the hydraulics that makes it function.Oh & it around \$3,000 for a high quality precision engineers spirit level used in machining. I should know I own a couple of them. Like I said earlier fill a clear tube with plain tap water, allowing  a small air pocket before sealing it. Sit in on a level surface. then watch the air bubble centralise. The fact is you can use a hose filled with water to level with. There is no curvature of the earth. Its total unproven nonsense.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2014, 06:06:16 AM »
Proven with sunrise and sunset, measured distances, satellites etc.

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#### charles bloomington

• 2476
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2014, 07:37:08 AM »
Proven with sunrise and sunset, measured distances, satellites etc.
Pigs ass it has. A clear long length of hose filled with water with its ends held up , clearly demonstrated there is no curvature. No curvature. No oblate spheroid.No ellipsoid, just plain old made up theoretical Bullshit. Peer reviewed by  persons feed the same theoretical bullshit. If you understood how a co2 lasers worked & how it can be reflected & then refracted. You would have a better understanding of what actually is occurring with a sunrise & sunset & what the sun actually is.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 07:46:41 AM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

#### markjo

• Content Nazi
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##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2014, 08:43:52 AM »
The fact is you can use a hose filled with water to level with. There is no curvature of the earth. Its total unproven nonsense.
I'm sorry but I keep forgetting, how does a very small bubble disprove curvature on a very large earth?  If hills can be curved, then why can't the earth be curved as well?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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#### Macpie

• 245
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2014, 08:49:37 AM »
Oh & it around \$3,000 for a high quality precision engineers spirit level used in machining. I should know I own a couple of them.
And what do you think the degree of precision on them is? If you have one, it is as easy as looking at it carefully. Do me a favour and check what the smallest angle it is marked to reliably measure is .

#### ausGeoff

• 6091
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2014, 09:47:48 AM »
Actually its the hydraulics that makes it function.
Hydraulics has NO bearing at all on the function of a spirit level.  Hydraulics deals with the mechanical properties of liquids, and is basically the liquid version of pneumatics. The foundations of hydraulics are theorised by fluid mechanics  Charles—as any legitimate engineer would know. You really are full of it aren't you LOL.

Quote
Oh & it around \$3,000 for a high quality precision engineers spirit level used in machining. I should know I own a couple of them.
Yeah, yeah Charles... of course you have.  Judging by the amount of engineering equipment you've claimed to possess on these forums, you must own a 30,000m2 warehouse to store all your stuff.

#### Son of Orospu

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##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2014, 10:01:51 AM »

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#### Alpha2Omega

• 3952
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2014, 10:27:57 AM »
A clear long length of hose filled with water with its ends held up , clearly demonstrated there is no curvature. No curvature. No oblate spheroid.No ellipsoid, just plain old made up theoretical [redacted].
Please elaborate on the water-filled hose experiment and how it demonstrates the shape of the earth.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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#### Sculelos

• 976
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2014, 10:54:40 AM »
A clear long length of hose filled with water with its ends held up , clearly demonstrated there is no curvature. No curvature. No oblate spheroid.No ellipsoid, just plain old made up theoretical [redacted].
Please elaborate on the water-filled hose experiment and how it demonstrates the shape of the earth.

Easiest way to determine the shape of the Earth is to tie a piece of string to a post and walk one mile (on perfectly level ground) making sure to make sure the string stays level the entire time at the end of 1 mile the string will actually end up 8 inches lower then it started. Explain that and you figured out the shape of the Earth...

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Proofs for alternate concept of Earth
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2014, 11:17:24 AM »
A clear long length of hose filled with water with its ends held up , clearly demonstrated there is no curvature. No curvature. No oblate spheroid.No ellipsoid, just plain old made up theoretical [redacted].
Please elaborate on the water-filled hose experiment and how it demonstrates the shape of the earth.

Easiest way to determine the shape of the Earth is to tie a piece of string to a post and walk one mile (on perfectly level ground) making sure to make sure the string stays level the entire time at the end of 1 mile the string will actually end up 8 inches lower then it started. Explain that and you figured out the shape of the Earth...
As there is no perfectly level ground then use water.