Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites

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Megaman

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1) Does the FE Theory state that the earth rotates like a disk?

If not, how in this explained?

When flying East planes arrive at their destination faster that when flying west.

i.e. On a round trip a plane arrives at it's Eastern destination faster than it does its Western destination.

2) It is my understanding that, according to the theory, there is no geographical south pole and the sun does not shine on the body of ice that Round Earthers call Antarctica.

How do FE theorists explain Amundsen-Scott Station?

Also I have a few biologist friends who have been on the coast of Antarctica and the sun does shine there.

3) FE theorists claim that space travel is impossible. How do you explain communication/Gps satellites?

More importantly how do you explain the international space station?

You can see it from Earth even without a telescope.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 05:49:05 AM by Megaman »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 11:22:45 AM »
1) Does the FE Theory state that the earth rotates like a disk?

If not, how in this explained?

When flying East planes arrive at their destination faster that when flying west.

i.e. On a round trip a plane arrives at it's Eastern destination faster than it does its Western destination.

Very good sir. You'll get an answer that's probably analogous to the plane is flying slower when it goes west.

2) It is my understanding that, according to the theory, there is no geographical south pole and the sun does not shine on the body of ice that Round Earthers call Antarctica.

How do FE theorists explain Amundsen-Scott Station?

Also I have a few biologist friends who have been on the coast of Antarctica and the sun does shine there.

This isn't a good place to have "friends that do something." You will be seen as discrediting yourself as countless people have come on here and said that they had friends that flew around the world, they were astronauts, their dad took them up to 100k feet in a russian fighter jet, all sorts of things.

They will say Amundsen-Scott station is either a hoax, or gaurding the ice wall, or it's in fact in some other tundra/glacier like location.

3) FE theorists claim that space travel is impossible. How do you explain communication/Gps satellites?

More importantly how do you explain the international space station?

You can see it from Earth even without a telescope.

You will be told that communications and GPS signals are actually broadcast from towers/psuedolites and are kept a secret as a part of the conspiracy to hide the true shape of the Earth. The goal of this conspiracy is unknown, however it is thought by some for the objective to be to steal taxpayers money. The same can be said about anything to do with NASA or space launches of any kind. Although, I'm sure there's other, less thought and time intensive ways to steal this money, but nonetheless, it has been said.

As far as the ISS goes, I can't ever remember seeing a rebuttal for that one. Hm.
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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 09:37:12 PM »
ThinkingMan, if you wish to answer FE questions, then you are more than welcome, even encouraged. However, if you're simply interested putting words in our mouths under the guise of an exasperated tone, you're doing no one a favor.  I believe that Megaman wanted to learn what flat-earthers thought, not what you think that we think. At this point you are doing nothing but inhibiting a seeking mind from learning the answers to questions and you should be ashamed of yourself. Now, if everyone will forgive the double post, I'll address the OP below.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 09:50:36 PM »
You should be ashamed, Pongo, that REers give better answers than you do.
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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 09:52:32 PM »
1) This is simply not true, and in fact, demonstrably wrong. Planes flying from New York to London, or west to east, are shorter than the opposite. This is a cornerstone proof of a flat earth. If the earth were in fact a globe spinning counterclockwise (looking from above), then the earth would spin below a traveling plane and decrease the flight time. A simple search of any transatlantic flight time will show this. 

2) To my knowledge, no one says that the sun does not shine on Antarctica. Some say it's the ice wall and others, my self included, think that it's a separate continent from the ice wall.

3) The ISS is locked in a buoyant area above the earth, much the same way that the moon and sun are. Much of the GPS system is either in the same area or simply an illusion created by towers meant to mimic satellite coverage.


To further your education, I would recommend that you have a look at the FAQ.

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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 09:57:45 PM »
You should be ashamed, Pongo, that REers give better answers than you do.

You had not ever seen my answers before you posted this?  How could you even begin to criticize them?  Round-earthers are always condemning us of being close minded, yet you didn't even have the courtesy of waiting a few moments before chiding me on my forthcoming response. The hubris of you never ceases to amaze me.  I am beginning to think you post here to be contrary than listen to anything.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 10:00:14 PM »
I've read your answers, and somehow, amazingly, I was able to successfully predict that they would suck.  It's almost as if there's a pattern to your posting that I've noticed.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 10:29:12 PM »
I've read your answers, and somehow, amazingly, I was able to successfully predict that they would suck.  It's almost as if there's a pattern to your posting that I've noticed.

Well, to be fair, if I asked you repeatedly what color the sky was, I could find a pattern to your answers as well. Sadly, there is a much more apparent pattern to your posts and one that we would like to discourage. You seem to take an overly negative tone more often than not and it contributes little, if not nothing to a discussion. If flat-earth theory is causing you duress, may I suggest you take a step back, go ride a bike or splash in a pond for a bit. This Internet forum is not something to distress over. If you would like to discuss the shape of the earth then we would love to have you, I personally think you're a worthy debater. However, systematically attacking every single topic here on non-thread related grounds does not help a thread and certainly does not lend weight to your side.

Another suggestion, there are many wonderful threads in the lower forums to get lost in. When you're ready to address flat-earths topics again, we'll be here.

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Megaman

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 12:08:42 AM »
1) This is simply not true, and in fact, demonstrably wrong. Planes flying from New York to London, or west to east, are shorter than the opposite. This is a cornerstone proof of a flat earth. If the earth were in fact a globe spinning counterclockwise (looking from above), then the earth would spin below a traveling plane and decrease the flight time. A simple search of any transatlantic flight time will show this. 

2) To my knowledge, no one says that the sun does not shine on Antarctica. Some say it's the ice wall and others, my self included, think that it's a separate continent from the ice wall.

3) The ISS is locked in a buoyant area above the earth, much the same way that the moon and sun are. Much of the GPS system is either in the same area or simply an illusion created by towers meant to mimic satellite coverage.


To further your education, I would recommend that you have a look at the FAQ.

Dearest Pongo,

I concede your points 2 & 3 because your theory explains them.

As for point 1 (which you claim is a cornerstone proof of FET):

1) You're not taking into account that in Round earth theory the atmosphere rotates with the earth.

Vector addition: Since a plane is moving against the atmosphere when it travels west, it has more resistance and is therefore slower. When the plane travels east it is moving with the atmosphere, which reduces resistance allowing the plane to move faster.

This is similar to the reason why hurricanes have a "dirty side". The "dirty side" is the side of the hurricane where the rotation vector is in the same direction as the hurricane's heading. The "dirty side" has speeds that are the sum of the rotation vector and the directional vector. Making that side more violent and dangerous. By the same reasoning the opposite side of the hurricane is much more tame because it's rotation vector opposes the directional vector of the hurricane.

2) Your observation that "Planes flying from New York to London, or west to east, are shorter than the opposite." Is exactly what I said in point one. Planes arrive at their Eastern destination

Conclusion: By your own observation you contradicted one of the "cornerstone proof(s) of a flat earth" and concede my first point.

Sincerely,

Megaman

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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 01:29:10 AM »
According to the round-earth theory, the earth spins at about 1000mph at the equator. London is at 50ish degrees latitude, so we'll say its spinning at 500mph there for the sake of arguememt. The earth is spinning at 500mph under a plane traveling from London to New York, yet it cannot account for this spinning underneath it. Or, in otherwords, a plane taking off from London has the advantage of having New York rushing towards it at 500mph. Yet, you argue that wind resistance (something that almost every college level class neglects is their daily calculations) makes up for this? This notition is ludicrous at best.

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 01:46:19 AM »
The plane is not traveling independent of the Earths rotation. If I jump the Earth does not move under me, I am moving with the Earth still. Everything on the Earth rotates with the Earth. Once you are outside the atmosphere you can now move independent of the Earths rotation.

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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 01:58:36 AM »
You jumping is vastly different from a plane leaving the ground for hours and hours at a time.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 02:00:21 AM »
You jumping is vastly different from a plane leaving the ground for hours and hours at a time.

Not if the air is moving with the earth, too.  You'll note that 1000 mph winds aren't the norm at the equator.
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Pongo

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 02:10:18 AM »
You jumping is vastly different from a plane leaving the ground for hours and hours at a time.

Not if the air is moving with the earth, too.  You'll note that 1000 mph winds aren't the norm at the equator.

Air not moving 1000mph at the equator is just another reason why the earth is flat.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 03:02:04 AM »
Air not moving 1000mph at the equator is just another reason why the earth is flat.

For there to be 1000 mph winds, as I mentioned, the air would actually be still as the earth moved underneath it.  Get it right.

Also, I'd love to know why we wouldn't expect the air to be moving with the earth on a round earth.  Is all that friction from space slowing it down?

Perhaps you can enlighten all us poor REers and maybe give us a sneak peek at that huge pile of flat earth evidence I hear about so much, yet have never seen.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 03:04:07 AM by Cat Earth Theory »
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 06:05:55 AM »
What is being discussed here is a principal that is used when calculating fuel efficiency on a space launch. There's a reason why most spaceflight launch at the equatorial area of the earth and why they do their gravity turn to the east. This is because they were already being pushed that direction, and it is much more efficient to move with the direction you're already moving. To give you an example of how this works...

Use a moderately powerful RC car motor (make sure it's on a nice stable mount vertically). Attach a stick with two opposing counterweights on either end of it, with some sort of quick release that you can set off remotely. Start the motor. when motor is spinning the weights sufficiently fast, release them. You will notice, they keep moving the direction of the spin, they don't just stop (which is pretty much what you're suggesting with the aircraft).

Now, to complete this, we have to take into account a couple things as factors in our experiment. There are other forces working on these counterweights besides inertia. There is the planet's gravity, pulling in a perpendicular direction of the spinning motor. There counterweights will suffer from air resistance. Now, imagine that this gravity is pulling from the center of the spin, and the air is all moving the same direction as the spinning. Also, gravity is effected by this spin. I'm not really sure how to describe it to you, hopefully someone with more knowledge of relativity can help with that. But there you go, that's how airplane flights work. If you go the other way it's harder... because you're already being pushed one way.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Megaman

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 12:33:31 PM »
You jumping is vastly different from a plane leaving the ground for hours and hours at a time.

Not if the air is moving with the earth, too.  You'll note that 1000 mph winds aren't the norm at the equator.

Air not moving 1000mph at the equator is just another reason why the earth is flat.

I hope you realize that if you take a remote control helicopter and try to fly it inside an enclosed vehicle (car, van, SUV, not a convertible), that the helicopter will have no trouble flying when the car is moving at a constant speed.

i.e. If the car is moving at 60 mph the helicopter doesn't have to be flying forward at 60 mph to keep from hitting the back windshield. This occures because the fluid that the helicopter is in (air) is already moving at the same speed as the vehicle.

But regardless this still does nothing to tell me how FE explains why it is cheaper/faster to fly East.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:48:48 PM by Megaman »

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Ski

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2012, 05:33:25 PM »
Are you implying a celestial dome over a round earth?   ???
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2012, 06:46:34 PM »
Are you implying a celestial dome over a round earth?   ???

Not sure who you're addressing but I don't see anything here that applies that. We were discussing the fact that in RET the atmosphere rotates with the earth and this is why planes fly faster when heading east.

Real earth explains it but I haven't see a well thought out reason for this in FE Theory.

I believe FE supporters become silent when valid arguments are raised.

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Ski

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2012, 08:27:49 PM »
I hope you realize that if you take a remote control helicopter and try to fly it inside an enclosed vehicle (car, van, SUV, not a convertible), that the helicopter will have no trouble flying when the car is moving at a constant speed.

In what way is the air on earth enclosed? Why would the atmosphere be turning on a globe?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2012, 09:33:44 PM »
Why would the atmosphere be turning on a globe?

Why wouldn't it be?  If it didn't, it would constantly be pushing against the earth, and the earth would be pushing against it.  Why would it stay that way?  It's not like there's friction from space that's keeping the atmosphere still.
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Ski

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2012, 10:03:26 PM »
Why would there need to be friction for the air to stay in place?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2012, 10:15:43 PM »
Why would there need to be friction for the air to stay in place?

Because if there's nothing to slow it down, it'll keep moving.  As long as it's moving with the earth's rotation there's nothing pushing against it, keeping it from continuing to move.  Inertia and all that business.  Make sense?

If you still disagree, I'd appreciate it if you'd explain why you think the atmosphere wouldn't move with the earth on a round earth.
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Ski

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 11:59:28 PM »
Yes, but the entire question would be why would be moving along with the earth's rotation in the first place. Inertia argues against it.
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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 12:04:00 AM »
Because if it was still, the rotating earth would be pushing it, causing it to start moving in the same direction.  Inertia doesn't argue against it.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:05:52 AM by Cat Earth Theory »
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 01:36:36 AM »
Why do the stars of the zodiac rise and set 4 mins later every day? Would that be maybe because the earth orbiting the sun? Please explain that for me.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:33:09 PM by Battery72 »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 05:57:47 AM »
Because if it was still, the rotating earth would be pushing it, causing it to start moving in the same direction.  Inertia doesn't argue against it.

It also has something to do with gravity causing large masses to spin, although I don't completely understand how that works. I can kind of picture it... but at the same time it's hard for me to grasp.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Megaman

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 09:00:38 AM »
Because if it was still, the rotating earth would be pushing it, causing it to start moving in the same direction.  Inertia doesn't argue against it.

It also has something to do with gravity causing large masses to spin, although I don't completely understand how that works. I can kind of picture it... but at the same time it's hard for me to grasp.

Now that that's settled, can someone from FE describe how their model allows for the efficiency gained by by flying East vs West.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 10:30:33 AM »
Because if it was still, the rotating earth would be pushing it, causing it to start moving in the same direction.  Inertia doesn't argue against it.

It also has something to do with gravity causing large masses to spin, although I don't completely understand how that works. I can kind of picture it... but at the same time it's hard for me to grasp.


Now that that's settled, can someone from FE describe how their model allows for the efficiency gained by by flying East vs West.

I feel like I've said this before but... good luck.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Ski

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Re: Earth rotation in Flat Earth Theory, the South Pole, and Satellites
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 04:34:55 PM »
Jet streams.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."