Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon

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Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« on: September 17, 2011, 11:25:34 AM »
This series of pictures shows ships between 15-25km from the observer, photographed from both sea level and 12m altitude.  Also included are pictures of the distant shoreline of the island that lies across the bay, from both sea level and 12m altitude.  There are examples of photos taken at magnifications of 1:1, 8:1 and 28:1. 

In these series are shown;

1. ships at 8 times magnification viewed from different elevations, the higher elevations revealing more of the hulls than are visible at sea level (0m)
2. Island coastland viewed at 8x magnification from different elevations, with more of the lower view of the coast visible from higher elevations
3. 28x telescope images of selected views of both coastal land and ships showing that higher magnification does not increase the proportion of the subject viewable but that higher elevation does increase the proportion of the subject that is visible.

Note: Some images have been reduced in size to make comparisons easier, the full view is available by cliking the image.


Ship 1, 1x mag. 12m alt. (enlarged to show detail)

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 1, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 1, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 1, 8x mag. 0m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 1, 8x mag. 0m alt.  (note ship 2 behind ship1. The hull of ship 2 is not even visible)

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 2, 8x mag. 0m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 2, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 3, 8x mag. 0m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 3, 28x mag. 0m alt. 

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 2, 28x mag. 1.5m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 2, 28x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Dune, 8x mag. 0m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Dune, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Houses on hill, 8x mag. 0m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Houses on hill, 28x mag. 1.5m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Houses on hill, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Apartments, 8x mag 1.5m alt

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Apartments, 28x mag. 1.5m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 03:51:12 AM by pitdroidtech »
First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

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Thork

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 11:59:09 AM »
Only a few weeks ago someone posted this as proof of curvature



However it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the earth does not curve by more than a foot to hide the bodies of people just 20 yards away. What has happened is a big wave is covering them. In your pictures, waves are covering the boat in exactly the same way. Greater distance, same effect.

My example also serves to prove how none of you ever use the search function.

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momentia

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 12:34:26 PM »
Some of the best pictures I've seen demonstrating curvature.

And Thork, waves are NOT the answer. You can see distant waves even in the low altitude pictures. I drew circles around them so you can't ignore them.




These pictures were taken from above the wave height, and most of their hulls are missing.

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Thork

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 12:51:57 PM »
You will notice from the picture I posted the water looks almost flat in the upper one. The power of even small waves to mask low objects is powerful. But your pictures are demonstrating the exact same thing. You are just hi-lighting imperfections in the general swell. It is the swell that covers the bottom of the boat.

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 01:00:13 PM »
You will notice from the picture I posted the water looks almost flat in the upper one. The power of even small waves to mask low objects is powerful. But your pictures are demonstrating the exact same thing. You are just hi-lighting imperfections in the general swell. It is the swell that covers the bottom of the boat.

Do you have any evidence that wave consistently rise high enough and frequently enough to mask the lower section of a boat while appearing as a almost perfectly flat surface? Or it it just 'I think this happens this way because it's the only way to explain what we see assuming a flat Earth'?

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General Disarray

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 01:01:56 PM »
Or it it just 'I think this happens this way because it's the only way to explain what we see assuming a flat Earth'?

Ah, I see you've met Thork.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thork

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 01:08:17 PM »
Wave effects and ships on the horizon is all explained in ENaG.
Really? Are we going to do this thread with the same pictures again?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49605.msg1236552#msg1236552
Note by the OP again! Considering the size of the posts, this is tantamount to spam.

Typing 'ship horizon' into the search churns out 1060 posts.
Lurk moar.

Or it it just 'I think this happens this way because it's the only way to explain what we see assuming a flat Earth'?

Ah, I see you've met Thork.
You need to crawl back under your bridge and keep the low-content posts out of the upper fora.

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Ski

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2011, 01:09:02 PM »
Thanks for posting these. I will try to take some time tomorrow to look at them in detail. Of course, raising the observers altitude increases the visible horizon. This has never (to my knowledge) been contested by anyone here. I'm mostly interested in comparing pictures taken at the same time/altitude but with different magnification. Coastal pictures might work best for this purpose. I'm headed out the door for the moment, but I really do want to look at these in depth.
Quickly glancing, the pictures you have labeled "Houses on hill" taken at 0 alt at different magnifications appear to demonstrate the effect of "hull" restoration by magnification. An entire building in centre frame appears to be restored underneath the triangular form of another building. This building is hiding below the visual horizon in the first (x8mag) picture, but appears in the second (x28) photo. This is impossible if the land was hidden behind a hill of water as globularism suggests. Perhaps you or someone else can look at this more closely while I am out, or I will be happy to look at them on the morrow.
Thanks again for the photos; I am always appreciative of those (rare) individuals who actually invest their time for such experimentation-- especially as my own locale is several hundred miles from an ocean.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2011, 04:31:36 PM »
Thanks for posting these. I will try to take some time tomorrow to look at them in detail. Of course, raising the observers altitude increases the visible horizon. This has never (to my knowledge) been contested by anyone here.
I contest this.  The true horizon and the mathematical horizon are slightly different.  The mathematical horizon represents precisely 0 degree declination and has no definable distance.  The true horizon for a round earth has slightly negative declination due to curvature, and has a distance dependant on altitude and radius of the earth.  For a flat earth, the true horizon's distance is dependant only on the distance to the edge of the sun-lit portion of the earth.  As this is much further than the visible edge of a round earth, its declination would be much smaller.

Quote
Quickly glancing, the pictures you have labeled "Houses on hill" taken at 0 alt at different magnifications appear to demonstrate the effect of "hull" restoration by magnification. An entire building in centre frame appears to be restored underneath the triangular form of another building. This building is hiding below the visual horizon in the first (x8mag) picture, but appears in the second (x28) photo. This is impossible if the land was hidden behind a hill of water as globularism suggests.

It could also be the atmospheric refraction phenomenon that globularists claim invalidated the Bedford experiment.  But I hope you notice the entire section of trees that shows up when altitude is increased in the x8 mag pictures.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2011, 04:46:13 PM »
You will notice from the picture I posted the water looks almost flat in the upper one. The power of even small waves to mask low objects is powerful. But your pictures are demonstrating the exact same thing. You are just hi-lighting imperfections in the general swell. It is the swell that covers the bottom of the boat.

This could only be true if the pictures were taken below wave height, which is not the case.  I doubt momentia would bring his multi-hundred dollar telescope and camera under a swell just to fake out a society which he probably believes consists of mere trolls.

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 05:27:01 PM »
can you estimate the radius of the earth from these observations?

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 05:32:40 PM »
can you estimate the radius of the earth from these observations?

No declination or distance measurements were taken, so no.

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 06:25:35 PM »
You will notice from the picture I posted the water looks almost flat in the upper one. The power of even small waves to mask low objects is powerful. But your pictures are demonstrating the exact same thing. You are just hi-lighting imperfections in the general swell. It is the swell that covers the bottom of the boat.
I would be insulted by this if I didn't know you were a troll.  ::)  For the benefit of anyone befuddled by your statement:
1. The water in the pic you posted does not look flat, there is a very obvious swell.
2. A swell comes and goes, it certainly doesn't rise and fall in time to my clambering up and down a cliff. 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 02:16:20 AM by pitdroidtech »
First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 06:39:15 PM »
Wave effects and ships on the horizon is all explained in ENaG.
Really? Are we going to do this thread with the same pictures again?
The non-restoration of the hull by telescope invalidates ENaG perspective.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49605.msg1236552#msg1236552
Note by the OP again! Considering the size of the posts, this is tantamount to spam.
Thanks for refencing my earlier work on this expirement.  As you will notice, this thread contributes significantly more information to this topic than has so far been provided.  The work of science relies on many scientists continually repeating the same work to build up a body of evidence.  This experiment is part of that work, and any future post's by me regarding ships and the horizon will be posted here.

Typing 'ship horizon' into the search churns out 1060 posts.
Lurk moar.
I challenge you to find any posts with as comprehensive photographic evidence.  If you do, I will appreciate the addition of the links as further support of my work above. Lurk Moar brother scientist.  (I assume 'Lurk Moar' some kind of scientific salute amongst scientists?)


First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 06:48:01 PM »
Thanks for posting these. I will try to take some time tomorrow to look at them in detail. Of course, raising the observers altitude increases the visible horizon. This has never (to my knowledge) been contested by anyone here. I'm mostly interested in comparing pictures taken at the same time/altitude but with different magnification. Coastal pictures might work best for this purpose. I'm headed out the door for the moment, but I really do want to look at these in depth.
Quickly glancing, the pictures you have labeled "Houses on hill" taken at 0 alt at different magnifications appear to demonstrate the effect of "hull" restoration by magnification. An entire building in centre frame appears to be restored underneath the triangular form of another building. This building is hiding below the visual horizon in the first (x8mag) picture, but appears in the second (x28) photo. This is impossible if the land was hidden behind a hill of water as globularism suggests. Perhaps you or someone else can look at this more closely while I am out, or I will be happy to look at them on the morrow.
Thanks again for the photos; I am always appreciative of those (rare) individuals who actually invest their time for such experimentation-- especially as my own locale is several hundred miles from an ocean.
Thanks for your ernest commitment to the quest for truth.

Regarding your observation of the "house on the hill":  I'm not exactly sure were you mean, it would be helpful if you were to post a picture showing the exact spot.  However, I will note that 1. Some things do infact disappear when viewed from further away, due to pixelation - as an object gets smaller it appears to disappear even before it has fully shrunk to a dot, since pixelation can blur out objects with the background.  However this doesn't occur in one axis only but across all axis equally given the same angular width or height, and 2nd, there is a small amount of inferior mirage, which is reflected across the line ofthe horizon, obscuring some detail.  If you look closely, you will see that beyond the margins of the mirage, are buildings and landscape features that simply do not appear on the sea level views that appear as plain as day on the elevated view.

Many thanks for your input.
First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 07:24:22 PM »
Regarding your observation of the "house on the hill":  I'm not exactly sure were you mean, it would be helpful if you were to post a picture showing the exact spot. 
In the middle, there is a building that looks like it has a dome on it that shows up in the 28x mag, but disappears in the 8x mag.

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Ski

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 08:00:15 PM »
This was highly interesting, and I again thank you for taking the time to perform these experiments. I am sorry it took so long to get back to this, but today was the sabbath and I had (ironically) many things to do. I think it's marvelous that you took the initiative and did not take for granted the "facts" of the matter as you understand them.

I have not touched the ratio of the pictures in any way. I have only cropped and zoomed to aid us.

This is the x8 Mag:


This is the x28 Mag:



This is the view merged to show better the restoration.


In the 28xMagnification picture, whole buildings appear, as well as part of the coastline, which are wholly absent from the x8 photo. I wish we had a plain picture with no magnification, but I am happy, indeed, that you were willing to provide what you did.
According to globularism these objects are hiding behind a hill of water. Yet as this experiment clearly shows (again), restoration of the image is possible by viewing through a telescope.
Before we introduce the bugaboo of refraction, you took these pictures at roughly the same time and location. If there was to be refraction in the pictures, this would be evident in both images. The light would take the same path from shore to eye regardless of magnification. If the buildings were behind a hill of water at 8xmagnification, they should be behind the hill of water at 28xmagnification as well.
This is confirmation of what Tom and I have been trying to tell people for years, only to be shouted down as quackery by the uninterested masses. I hope people will take an honest look at the results, and give this experiment (and their beliefs to rotundity) the attention it deserves.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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squevil

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2011, 01:42:01 AM »
makes interesting viewing thanks to both of you. i wish the last images were clear though, its a shame that the houses in the center dont even follow the same shape as the 28x magnification pictures. what about the others ski that show no changes? is this because there was not enough distance? i wish we could study sharp and a sharper picture. would the results be better using film?

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2011, 03:44:53 AM »

In the 28xMagnification picture, whole buildings appear, as well as part of the coastline, which are wholly absent from the x8 photo. I wish we had a plain picture with no magnification, but I am happy, indeed, that you were willing to provide what you did.
According to globularism these objects are hiding behind a hill of water. Yet as this experiment clearly shows (again), restoration of the image is possible by viewing through a telescope.
Before we introduce the bugaboo of refraction, you took these pictures at roughly the same time and location. If there was to be refraction in the pictures, this would be evident in both images. The light would take the same path from shore to eye regardless of magnification. If the buildings were behind a hill of water at 8xmagnification, they should be behind the hill of water at 28xmagnification as well.
This is confirmation of what Tom and I have been trying to tell people for years, only to be shouted down as quackery by the uninterested masses. I hope people will take an honest look at the results, and give this experiment (and their beliefs to rotundity) the attention it deserves.

I appreciate your reasoned response, however refraction does indeed account for this, but in the form of an inferior mirage (as I mentioned in my OP).  Notice in the images (I have used your crops, thank you) I have drawn a white line through the point where the actual image is mirrored by the mirage.  Also, I must embarassingly admit that I made in error my original post; the telescopic images (28x) were taken at about 1-1.5metres above sea level, not actually at sea level. (I have corrected the original post to reflect this).

The refracted image, along with the fact that slightly more of the view is visible in the telescopic shots, is consistant with my findings.  See below for images with white lines drawn through the fold line of the refraction.  When you consider that what appears to be a missing building is in fact simply an upside down mirror image obscuring the waterline.  The black line on the second image shows the height of the white line on the first image ie: the black line representing the 0m view, and white line representing the 1.5m view

0m 8x

Inferior Mirage by max_wedge, on Flickr

1.5m 28x

Inferior Mirage by max_wedge, on Flickr

Also please note, I will gladly do more such experiments, and also hope to do some on a day were there is no mirage evident.  Nevertheless, when all the images are taken together, it's quite clear that more is visible at higher elevations.  Indeed, even if the telescopic view HAD restored part of the view, the non-telescopic elevated view restored FAR MORE of the view:

12m 8x

20110918-003 by max_wedge, on Flickr

In a Flat Earth Scenario, increased elevation can not restore any part of the image, since there is no hill of curvature to obsure anything in the first place.

As you said, it would be good to have better quality images to work with.  In a sense this is impossible since we are working from pictures of a horizon close to 30km distant.  So to take comparative shots at low magnification, details will of necessity be highly pixellated.  Of course some of the issue comes down to my equipment which could be of higher quality, but at $20,000 for the lens I'd prefer to use for this experiment, that ain't gonna happen!!  Also a higher megepixel camera would help.  Also, a better quality telescope would also improve the quality of the images.

However that said, I believe the results are adequate.  The details while blurry are easy to compare from image to image.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 04:49:21 PM by pitdroidtech »
First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2011, 04:03:53 AM »
makes interesting viewing thanks to both of you. i wish the last images were clear though, its a shame that the houses in the center dont even follow the same shape as the 28x magnification pictures.
This is due to refraction, but also I made a genuine error in reporting the height - see my post in response to Ski.
what about the others ski that show no changes? is this because there was not enough distance? i wish we could study sharp and a sharper picture. would the results be better using film?
The others were actually closer not further than the examples that Ski referenced.  All pictures show a definite revealing of the lower details of the view at higher altitudes.

The results would be better using higher quality glass, but not by much.  The fact of the matter is, taking 8x mag images (let alone the 1x that Ski would like to see) of objects 25km or more distant is not going to yield great results.

To do a comparative study you need to work with the low mag images as well as the high mag images. 

btw, @Ski, I will post more 1x comparisons, but note that I did include one 1x at the start of the thread.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 04:05:29 AM by pitdroidtech »
First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "

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Ski

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2011, 10:00:20 AM »
Hurriedly, I'll type another brief message. I hope to give the subject the time it deserves later.

The refracted image, along with the fact that slightly more of the view is visible in the telescopic shots, is consistant with my findings.  See below for images with white lines drawn through the fold line of the refraction. 

I wholly agree with you, in fact, I had thought about including these lines, but it was already late and I slouched. The problem with your interpretation is that the white line drawn on the inferior mirage represents the true horizon. In an inferior mirage the mirage is mirrored below the horizon. I'm sure we can agree with this.
Again, the hill and buildings thereon are restored by magnification. If everything under the white line is projected below the horizon on water, the white line represents the hill of water that rotundity insists is there. The hill of water should not recede by magnification. I will approach this again later tonight, if you wish, but I think I've demonstrated the point sufficiently for everyone to grasp at the moment.

0m 8x

Inferior Mirage by max_wedge, on Flickr

0m 28x

Inferior Mirage by max_wedge, on Flickr


Quote
  Nevertheless, when all the images are taken together, it's quite clear that more is visible at higher elevations.  Indeed, even if the telescopic view HAD restored part of the view, the non-telescopic elevated view restored FAR MORE of the view:
Of course they do because by raising your elevation you are allowing your eye-line to recede farther before it shrinks. This is covered in ENaG, and I don't have time to post more deeply at the moment.


Quote
In a Flat Earth Scenario, increased elevation can not restore any part of the image, since there is no hill of curvature to obsure anything in the first place.
This is not true, and the misunderstanding is because you are misrepresenting true perspective. A simple observation on a locally level surface (basketball court?) will demonstrate this for you. Place a small coin upright at the edge of he court and place your eye as close to the surface at the other end of the court. You will be unable to discern the entirety of the coin until you raise your eye level, but this has nothing to do with a hill of concrete in between you and the coin, and everything to do with your ability to discern objects at distance.

Quote
Also please note, I will gladly do more such experiments, and also hope to do some on a day were there is no mirage evident.
This would be splendid. Thank you again. I will also address some of the other photos you have taken when I have the time, but this series of pictures showed the effect for markedly than the others.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2011, 10:44:22 AM »
can you estimate the radius of the earth from these observations?

No declination or distance measurements were taken, so no.

So according to these pictures:

  • The earth is (roughly) a sphere
  • It's impossible to describe the size of this sphere

This is a completely unscientific approach.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 10:56:30 AM »
can you estimate the radius of the earth from these observations?

No declination or distance measurements were taken, so no.

So according to these pictures:

  • The earth is (roughly) a sphere
  • It's impossible to describe the size of this sphere

This is a completely unscientific approach.

If he had taken some angle measurements for the horizon, we would have a size for the sphere.  He didn't so we don't.

But keep in mind, that with this logic, Ski can't claim this as scientific evidence either, because rowbotham doesn't provide a formula for determining how far objects restore based on altitude.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2011, 11:14:29 AM »
Quote
In a Flat Earth Scenario, increased elevation can not restore any part of the image, since there is no hill of curvature to obsure anything in the first place.
This is not true, and the misunderstanding is because you are misrepresenting true perspective. A simple observation on a locally level surface (basketball court?) will demonstrate this for you. Place a small coin upright at the edge of he court and place your eye as close to the surface at the other end of the court. You will be unable to discern the entirety of the coin until you raise your eye level, but this has nothing to do with a hill of concrete in between you and the coin, and everything to do with your ability to discern objects at distance.
I tried this.  One thing I notice is that the penny, because it is flat, diminishes in vertical apparent size as you go from viewing it from slightly above to viewing it edge on.  This makes a penny a poor comparison to a building.  Another thing I notice, is that I can still see the floor where the penny was.  There's no actual "horizon" blocking my view.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2011, 11:29:37 AM »
One other thing I'd like to point out involves these two ship pictures at the same altitude and magnification.
Ship 1, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

Ship 1, 8x mag. 12m alt.

Ships Below the Horizon by max_wedge, on Flickr

In the firs picture the ship is in front of the horizon, and in the second it seems to be sitting on top of the horizon.
It is established that the horizon line represents eye level.  If this is the case, then in the first photo, the eyeline is at the top of the bottom third of the hull.  In the second, the eyeline is at the very bottom of the hull.  This seems to suggest that the water's surface is not flat.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:32:12 AM by Nolhekh »

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Thork

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2011, 11:51:47 AM »
There is an element of photoshopping in some of the OPs pictures.

A clean image should look like this.
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/212bc12/  or http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/4037b7f/

An altered image looks like this
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/1b68cf2/

I just thought this relevant.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2011, 12:08:59 PM »
There is an element of photoshopping in some of the OPs pictures.

A clean image should look like this.
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/212bc12/  or http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/4037b7f/

An altered image looks like this
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/1b68cf2/

I just thought this relevant.

The sky seems to be the only part that doesnt fit.


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Thork

Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »
The entire boat has been moved on the altered one. The sky is not original (or at least did not come with that sea or has been moved in relation to the sea). The image is a composite.

Below, same boat, same lighting but not shopped.
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/b3c6708/

The other two may be used to continue the discussion using refraction/mirages etc as topics of debate, but many of these so-called proofs, handily put together by this flickr user, have been done so with an agenda. Feel free to copy the links in for yourself. Bright lines are a sure sign of shopping. Brightest objects are added last.

Yet again the Flat Earth Society is being besmirched by devious and untrustworthy round earthers. >:(
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 12:32:15 PM by Thork »

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Nolhekh

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Re: Photographic Evidence of Curvature Beyond the Visible Horizon
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2011, 12:34:34 PM »
http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/27d658a/
This photoshop job which I did does not turn up any such bright lines.  And the sky and ground which are both of the same photograph appear as different as they do in the image with the ship.  There are even CG elements which produce hardly any difference.

This site does not seem to be entirely reliable.