Midnight Sun Again

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Marcus Aurelius

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Midnight Sun Again
« on: December 02, 2008, 11:48:42 AM »
I posted this in another forum, but nobody seems to want to address it there, so I will re post the debate in a new discussion:

I don't see any direct evidence of that phenomenon in Antarctica. Maybe once you bring some evidence to the table we can continue this conversation. But as it is you just keep on making claims without proof to back up your statements.

This is somebodies first hand account of 24 hour sunlight in Antarctica.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/541907/antarctica_land_of_the_midnight_sun.html?cat=16


To which Tom responded:
Quote
This is somebodies first hand account of 24 hour sunlight in Antarctica.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/541907/antarctica_land_of_the_midnight_sun.html?cat=16

Who is studying the midnight sun and making those claims? Scientists stationed on the government's antarctic military bases, perhaps?

Which I responded:

I thought it was only NASA in on the conspiracy?  Government scientists are not the only ones who visit Antarctica.  There were 13,000 visitors to the continent in 2003.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/an.htm
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Population Officially none, but governmental research stations are populated with small groups of scientists at all times. In addition, in 2003, over 13,000 tourists visited the continent.
 

Markjo also made a good point:

There are even people who run marathons in Antarctica.
http://www.marathontours.com/index.cfm/page/Event-Information/pid/10738
http://www.adventure-network.com/display.asp?navid=1&id=59

It was never responded to again.  So, how does the midnight sun in Antarctica and Arctic support a flat earth model?

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008, 12:01:06 PM »
It doesn't.
If the sun moves along a circular path that widens during the northern hemisphere's winter, and if what we know as antarctica is simply a ring of ice that's keeping the water from falling off the earth, then anyone at or near the ice should actually experience extreme darkness at midnight and long nights since the sun would theoretically be further away than at any other time in the year - and stay away for longer periods of time.
I have friends that have been to Tierra del Fuego in December.  That part of the world experiences near 24 hour sunlight as well during that part of the year.  Is everyone that lives near or has visited areas near the "ice walls" part of the conspiracy?

This simply cannot be explained by a flat earth model.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 12:04:38 PM by steveodom »

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008, 12:09:20 PM »
That is what I would think as well.  But try getting FE to say that.  :o

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len

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 04:30:18 PM »
That is what I would think as well.  But try getting FE to say that.  :o

Goodluck. Everything is a conspiracy. I think I'm going to manufacture tinfoil hats to sell on this website.

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Johannes

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 06:07:10 PM »
3 possible explanations

1. Dual suns (possible but NASA won't lend me spaceship to check)
2. Antarctica tours are really just trips to the arctic circle (BINGO!)
3. Sky mirror scheme to bring sun to ice wall 24/7 (very unlikely)

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Perfect Circle

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 06:34:22 PM »
2. Antarctica tours are really just trips to the arctic circle (BINGO!)
They are not alike. Penguins are not even found in the Arctic Circle.
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 09:43:06 PM »
1. Dual suns (possible but NASA won't lend me spaceship to check)
Well at some point on the surface of the Earth (well a ring) you would be able to see both suns, as two suns have never been seen we can rule this out.


2. Antarctica tours are really just trips to the arctic circle (BINGO!)
But if they leave from somewhere like Tasmania, or New Zealand, then you can work out the speed you travelled by the distance and time. As the time is known, and the distance to the Arctic Circle is also known, you can work out the Speed. You can also check the speed of the boat in many different ways (as compared to the waters of the ocean, or better yet as compared tot he change in angle of the stars. That last method can be checked against measurements made on ground and so eliminate any errors that might occur due to "Fish boosts".

But no such high speeds have been recoded, so we can rule this out.


3. Sky mirror scheme to bring sun to ice wall 24/7 (very unlikely)
I agree this is very unlikely, but as the other two methods have already been ruled out, this is therefore the most likely of the scenarios you posted. However, if Sky Mirrors were bringing sunlight to the Antarctic, you would have to reflect the Sun, which means that you would get multiple images of the Sun, which suffers from exactly the same problem that your first scenario suffers (mainly that at some places you will see more than one sun).

As multiple suns have not been seen, we can then rule this out as well.

So not one of your scenarios actually stands up to a reality check. None of them reflect reality. So none of them can be correct.

But RET easily explains it all.

I will accept the one that explains it, and not one that can't.
Everyday household experimentation.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 11:33:28 AM »
Is it possible in FE without made up explanations?  2 suns does not make sense, where does the second sun go when there is 24 hour darkness in Antarctica for example.  Approximately half of the earths surface is hit by the sun at any one time, and the surface that is in sunlight is contiguous.

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »

This simple observation that has been made by thousands, rather millions, of normal people (you can do it from Ushuaia, Argentina in December) can unequivocally not be explained by a Flat Earth model.

It is that simple. 

This thread will likely be ignored by FE-ers - it's their only real option.

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ASK

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 12:46:29 PM »

This simple observation that has been made by thousands, rather millions, of normal people (you can do it from Ushuaia, Argentina in December) can unequivocally not be explained by a Flat Earth model.

It is that simple. 

This thread will likely be ignored by FE-ers - it's their only real option.

Well then maybe we should just kepp bumping it to the top.
I really hope this website is a joke.

If not please dont tell your kids that the earth is flat.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 12:57:31 PM »
I know, I am just doing this to present a challenge.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 01:49:22 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?

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ASK

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 02:01:07 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?


Did you read the whole thread??
I really hope this website is a joke.

If not please dont tell your kids that the earth is flat.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 02:16:02 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?

A journalist. I linked to his article in the first post.  Plus 13,000 civilian visitors to Antarctica in 2003.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 02:19:09 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?

oh and don't you mean research bases?  I doubt there would be any reason to put a military presence in Antarctica.

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ASK

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 02:22:17 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?

oh and don't you mean research bases?  I doubt there would be any reason to put a military presence in Antarctica.


Tom says that there are millitary bases to protect the ice wall.
I really hope this website is a joke.

If not please dont tell your kids that the earth is flat.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2008, 02:23:46 PM »
he contradicts himself often, one thread saying it is only a space agency cover up, the next it is all major world governments with their military bases in Antarctica.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2008, 02:56:21 PM »
Some notable antarctic explorers:

Quote
AMUNDSEN, ROALD
Roald Amundsen (1872-1928) was a Norwegian polar explorer who was the first person to fly over the North Pole in a dirigible (May 11-13, 1926) and was the first person to reach the South Pole. Amundsen and his small expedition reached the South Pole on December 14, 1911, traveling by dog sled. Amundsen was also the first person to sail around the world through the Northeast and Northwest passages, from the Atlantic to the Pacific (in 1905). He was the first person to reach both the North and South Poles. Amundsen died in a plane crash attempting to rescue his friend, the Italian explorer Umberto Nobile who was lost in an airship.

For more information on Amundsen, click here.
BYRD, RICHARD E.
Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd (1888-1957) was an Arctic and Antarctic explorer, pioneering aviator, and US Naval Officer. On May 9, 1926, Byrd (the navigator) and Floyd Bennett (the pilot) made what may have been the first airplane trip over the North Pole, in a 15 1/2 hour flight; they flew from King's Bay, Spitsbergen, Norway, to the North Pole and back again. There is a dispute as to whether or not they actually reached the pole. He also made many trips to Antarctica.

For more information on Byrd, click here.
COOK, JAMES
James Cook (October 27, 1728- February 14, 1779) was a British explorer and astronomer who went on many expeditions to the Pacific Ocean, Antarctic, Arctic, and around the world.

Cook's first journey was from 1768 to 1771, when he sailed to Tahiti in order to observe Venus as it passed between the Earth and the Sun (in order to try to determine the distance between the Earth and the Sun). During this expedition, he also mapped northern Australia.

Cook's second expedition (1772-1775) took him to Antarctica and to Easter Island.

Cook's last expedition (1776-1779) was a search for a Northwest Passage across North America to Asia. Cook was killed by a mob on Feb. 14, 1779, on the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii). At the time, he was trying to take the local chief hostage to get the natives to return a sailboat they had stolen.

Cook was the first ship's captain to stop the disease scurvy (now known to be caused by a lack of vitamin C) among sailors by providing them with fresh fruits. Before this, scurvy had killed or incapacitated many sailors on long trips.

For more information on James Cook, click here.
FIENNES, RANULPH
Sir Ranulph Twistleton-Wykeham-Fiennes (March 7, 1944- ) is an English explorer and author who has led over 30 expeditions to the North and South Poles, the desert, the Nile, and many other remote places. In 1982, Fiennes led the first polar circumnavigation of the Earth. In 1992, Fiennes and others found the legendary Lost City of Ubar in the desert of Oman. In 1993, Fiennes and Dr. Mike Stroud made the first unsupported walk across the continent of Antarctica, each man dragging a 500-pound sledge.

Fiennes holds many world exploration records. The Guiness Book of Records described Fiennes as "the world's greatest living explorer."

For more information on Fiennes, click here.
HILLARY, EDMUND
Sir Edmund Percival Hillary (1919 - ) is a mountain climber, Antarctic explorer, and beekeeper from New Zealand. Hillary and the Nepalese mountaineer Tenzing Norgay, were the first people to reach the top of Mount Everest on May 29, 1953. Mount Everest is the highest mountain in the world (29,028 feet = 8,848 m). Hillary went on many other adventures, including other expeditions than to Mt. Everest, reaching the South Pole by tractor on Jan. 4, 1958, and climbing Mt. Herschel (10,941 feet = 3,335 m) in 1967 (his was the first expedition to climb it), and leading the first expedition to jet boat up the Ganges River to find its source. Hillary wrote many books about his adventures, including High Adventure (1955), The Crossing of Antarctica (1958; with Fuchs), and No Latitude for Error (1961), and Nothing Venture, Nothing Win (1975).
MAWSON, DOUGLAS
Douglas Mawson (1882 - 1958) was an Australian geologist and explorer. Mawson was a member of the British Antarctic Expedition (1907-1909) which was led by Ernest Shackleton. On a three-man sledge trip, Mawson, A.F. Mackay, and Edgeworth David traveled to the magnetic South Pole. Mawson was among the first to climb Antarctica's Mount Erebus. Mawson also went on the scientific Australasian Antarctic Expedition (1911-1914). During this expedition, Mawson went on an ill-fated trip in which only Mawson survived, walking 100 miles (160 km) alone, hauling his geological specimens on a sled. His book "The Home of the Blizzard," is an account of this journey. Later, Mawson led the British, Australian, New Zealand Antarctic Research Expedition (BANZARE) of 1929-31, mapping the coastline of Antarctic and discovering Mac. Robertson land and Princess Elizabeth Land (which later became the Australian Antarctic Territory). Early in his career, in 1906, Mawson identified and named the radioactive mineral Davidite (named for T. W. Edgeworth David). Mawson appears on an Australian stamp and $100 bill.
ROSS, JAMES CLARK
RossSir James Clark Ross (1800 - 1862) was a British explorer and naval officer who went on missions to both the Arctic and the continent of Antarctica, doing magnetic surveys.

The Arctic: Ross went on Arctic expeditions with Sir William E. Parry from 1819 to 1827. Ross and his uncle, Sir John Ross, located the north magnetic pole on Boothia Peninsula (in northern Canada, north of King William Island) on May 31, - June 1, 1831.

Antarctica: James Ross led an Antarctic expedition (1839-43), commanding the "Erebus" while his friend Francis Crozier commanded the "Terror." Ross charted much of the coastline and in 1841 discovered the Ross Sea, and the Victoria Barrier, which was later renamed the Ross Ice Shelf.

For a page on James Clark Ross, click here.
SCOTT, ROBERT F.
Scott mapRobert Falcon Scott (June 6, 1868 - March 29, 1912) was a British naval officer and Antarctic explorer. Scott led two expeditions to the South Pole, and died on the disastrous second trip, along with his crew. His expedition was the second to reach the South Pole (1910-1912); Roald Amundsen led the first.

For more information on Scott, click here.
SHACKLETON, ERNEST HENRY
AntarcticaSir Ernest Henry Shackleton (1872-1922) was a British explorer (born in Ireland) and member of the Royal Naval Reserve. Shackleton was involved in many expeditions attempting to reach the South Pole.

For more information on Shackleton, click here.
WEDDELL, JAMES
James Weddell (1787 -1834) was an English explorer, naturalist, geographer, and sealer who sailed on three expeditions to the Antarctic (in the years 1820-21, 1821-22 and 1822-23). Captain Weddell sailed on the brig "Jane." On these sealing/scientific expeditions, Weddell discovered the Weddell Sea (near the South Pole) and the Weddell Seal, Leptonychotes weddelli in 1823. Weddell sealCaptain Weddell also set an 80-year record for the farthest southern latitude reached (74?15'S, set February 20, 1823). Weddell wrote of his adventures in the book, "A Voyage Towards the South Pole in the Years 1822-24" (published in 1825). Weddell died in poverty at the age of 47.

Many of these explorers wrote books documenting their trips.  Here is the URL:http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/antarctica.shtml

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Johannes

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2008, 03:58:24 PM »
How do you know penguins cannot survive in the arctic circle if they are given food by humans? Many the government just holds them captive and takes care of them... Then tourists come and government releases them to get some fresh air for a while.

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Perfect Circle

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2008, 04:07:56 PM »
How do you know penguins cannot survive in the arctic circle if they are given food by humans? Many the government just holds them captive and takes care of them... Then tourists come and government releases them to get some fresh air for a while.
Because people travel to the Arctic circle all the time (unless, like the Ice Wall, there is some important reason for the conspiracy to guard here as well, so where would these people go?). There is no record of penguins living in the Arctic Circle.
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2008, 04:14:49 PM »
Quote
How do you know penguins cannot survive in the arctic circle if they are given food by humans? Many the government just holds them captive and takes care of them... Then tourists come and government releases them to get some fresh air for a while.

I suppose they hide the Polar bears somewhere as well, drop a rocky coastline along the edge of the Arctic at certain intervals, and plant a big stick with the Southern cross taped to the top nearby?

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Snaaaaake

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2008, 05:14:49 PM »
Who saw the midnight sun in Antarctica, and were they affiliated with the government's military bases there?

Tom, how pathetic you are getting after losing almost every FE/RE debate you've been in in the past couple years.
We told you to go to rehab, but you were all like "no, no, no!" ::)

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2008, 05:46:52 PM »
How do you know penguins cannot survive in the arctic circle if they are given food by humans? Many the government just holds them captive and takes care of them... Then tourists come and government releases them to get some fresh air for a while.
They could survive in the Arctic, even without human intervention. What stops Penguins from living in the Arctic is that they have to cross the Equator. These waters are too warm for them to survive (try living in the tropic wearing snow suits all day, penguins have a lot of insulation to stop them getting cold, but in the tropics this would be worse for them than wearing that snow suit).

What prevents you scenario is that the distance to Antarctica is shorter than the Distance to the Arctic when you fly form Australia (Tasmania) or New Zealand. If instead of the few hours flight time RET predicts (and people experience) to fly to the Antarctic, you flew to the Arctic, it would take over a day to do so.

I think people would notice 2 days round trip as compare to a few hours. Don't you?
Everyday household experimentation.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2008, 06:12:33 PM »
How do you know penguins cannot survive in the arctic circle if they are given food by humans? Many the government just holds them captive and takes care of them... Then tourists come and government releases them to get some fresh air for a while.

You have completely lost me, what do penguins have to do with midnight sun in Antarctica?  Stay on subject please.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2008, 07:18:54 AM »
So, how does the midnight sun in Antarctica and Arctic support a flat earth model?

Not much FE traffic here.  We had one half assed attempt at a troll.  From an FE'er, can this phenomenon exist on a flat earth model?

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ASK

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2008, 07:42:40 AM »
So, how does the midnight sun in Antarctica and Arctic support a flat earth model?

Not much FE traffic here.  We had one half assed attempt at a troll.  From an FE'er, can this phenomenon exist on a flat earth model?


no it cant. thats why they stay away
I really hope this website is a joke.

If not please dont tell your kids that the earth is flat.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2008, 07:51:48 AM »
I would love to hear that from them.  I will just keep bumping this until they want to address it seriously.

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2008, 07:57:59 AM »
So, how does the midnight sun in Antarctica and Arctic support a flat earth model?

Not much FE traffic here.  We had one half assed attempt at a troll.  From an FE'er, can this phenomenon exist on a flat earth model?

FE-ers, please answer ragnarr's question with a response backed by evidence. 
Or, let us know if you feel that your model is flawed.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2008, 08:01:37 AM »
Yes, and if you are going to troll and say that a sky mirror allows this to happen, please provide evidence of such a phenomenon.

Re: Midnight Sun Again
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2008, 05:51:55 PM »
So, how does the midnight sun in Antarctica and Arctic support a flat earth model?

Not much FE traffic here.  We had one half assed attempt at a troll.  From an FE'er, can this phenomenon exist on a flat earth model?

FE-ers, please answer ragnarr's question with a response backed by evidence. 
Or, let us know if you feel that your model is flawed.
We're still waiting.