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Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model

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Percy

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Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« on: November 19, 2008, 11:58:38 AM »
ok this may have been asked before but it wasnt posted on the FAQ,
and i really wanna figure this out

ill keep it short; check it I even drew a picture!  :D

heres my question:

i can probably safely assume that people originally recorded the whole earth as being round, and is 'officially' documented  (i dunno how this stuff works) as a round model currently in the world

but if you translate our geography of rthe round earth to the flat earth, there are bits missing!

so i guess my question summed up is why is that?
are they just really bad cartographers
or is there liek a vortex or something that stretches our perseption of the land



« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 06:08:09 PM by Cinlef »
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Quote from: matty_o5 on November 08, 2008, 03:39:22 AM
Look pal i'm english, we invented the language so dont tell me when im getting it wrong.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 12:47:34 PM »
Quote from: Percy on November 19, 2008, 11:58:38 AM
are they just really bad cartographers

Essentially.  It's more that there hasn't really been a FEer who was knowledgable about the art of cartography enough to make an accurate map.  Such an undertaking would also require massive resources as the entire plane would need to be surveyed, since all such projects in the past have been conducted from a RE perspective.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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C-Ray

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2008, 07:43:57 AM »
Think God those early explorers didn't have that attitude in their simple boats with their simple equipment and their paper and pencil.  People getting sick and dying on the journeys.  Whoo, if they had that attitude the world might just be, well where Flat Earth Hypothesis is today.  I suggest you guys get started on a map.  Not as hard as you make it out to be.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2008, 03:39:29 PM »
Quote from: C-Ray on November 20, 2008, 07:43:57 AM
Think God those early explorers didn't have that attitude in their simple boats with their simple equipment and their paper and pencil.

Well... I'm not an explorer.  I'm not sure that any FEers have been explorers, which is precisely the problem.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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C-Ray

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 08:23:24 AM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 20, 2008, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: C-Ray on November 20, 2008, 07:43:57 AM
Think God those early explorers didn't have that attitude in their simple boats with their simple equipment and their paper and pencil.

Well... I'm not an explorer.  I'm not sure that any FEers have been explorers, which is precisely the problem.

Which is exactly what makes this hypothesis ludicrous.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2008, 03:53:58 PM »
Quote from: C-Ray on November 21, 2008, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 20, 2008, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: C-Ray on November 20, 2008, 07:43:57 AM
Think God those early explorers didn't have that attitude in their simple boats with their simple equipment and their paper and pencil.

Well... I'm not an explorer.  I'm not sure that any FEers have been explorers, which is precisely the problem.

Which is exactly what makes this hypothesis ludicrous.

Why?
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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General Douchebag

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 04:12:07 PM »
Damned crazy FEers. U GUIZE HAZ NO EXPLORARS, SO US R RONG. Is that the basic idea of this thread?
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Quote from: Baseball4Life on April 16, 2010, 09:54:41 AM
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C-Ray

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 09:12:03 AM »
Why is it ridiculous for an FE'er to not want to get out and explore this plane that they are so convinced is flat because it looks that way from the window of their house?  Why is it ridiculous that after hundreds of years Flat Earth Hypothesis doesn't have a working map?  Why is it ridiculous that on this forum alone we have pilots and engineers and not even a drawing of the coast line?  Why is it ridiculous that this idea has yet to make the transition from Hypothesis to theory after all these hundreds of years?  Why is ridiculous that when we ask to see pictures of this supposed ice wall you guys post pics of the Ross Ice Shelf that they themselves didn't take and when we post pics that we didn't take it is pawned off as conspiracy?  Why is it ridiculous that we can measure the fluctuation of the gravitational pull of Flat Earth when we stand on a mountain or at the equator or in the salt flats and attribute it to the pull of other heavenly bodies circling above us, at least this is FEH explanation for measured phenomena, and I can't get a simple answer to a question as why space flight isn't possible if you guys agree with the fact that the escape velocity would decrease the higher you went in altitude?

I think it's pretty self explanatory why this theory is ridiculous or ludicrous.
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markjo

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 09:41:22 AM »
C-Ray, apparently FE'ers believe that once they have asserted the fact that the earth is flat, then the theory is complete and no further evidence is required.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 01:18:06 PM »
Quote from: C-Ray on November 24, 2008, 09:12:03 AM
Why is it ridiculous for an FE'er to not want to get out and explore this plane that they are so convinced is flat because it looks that way from the window of their house?  Why is it ridiculous that after hundreds of years Flat Earth Hypothesis doesn't have a working map?  Why is it ridiculous that on this forum alone we have pilots and engineers and not even a drawing of the coast line?  Why is it ridiculous that this idea has yet to make the transition from Hypothesis to theory after all these hundreds of years?  Why is ridiculous that when we ask to see pictures of this supposed ice wall you guys post pics of the Ross Ice Shelf that they themselves didn't take and when we post pics that we didn't take it is pawned off as conspiracy?  Why is it ridiculous that we can measure the fluctuation of the gravitational pull of Flat Earth when we stand on a mountain or at the equator or in the salt flats and attribute it to the pull of other heavenly bodies circling above us, at least this is FEH explanation for measured phenomena, and I can't get a simple answer to a question as why space flight isn't possible if you guys agree with the fact that the escape velocity would decrease the higher you went in altitude?

I think it's pretty self explanatory why this theory is ridiculous or ludicrous.

That didn't answer my question at all.  It was stuffed with straw men.  And since when has FET been around for hundreds of years?
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 01:25:42 PM »
First, when a cartographer maps a part or all of the earth, they do so assuming a round earth.
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.
Third, cartographers would take these distortions into account when they make their maps.
Fourth, if the world were flat then these maps would be terribly inaccurate.
Fifth, maps are used every day successfully.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 01:43:30 PM »
Quote from: ragnarr on November 24, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
First, when a cartographer maps a part or all of the earth, they do so assuming a round earth.

Exactly.

Quote
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.

Absolutely.

Quote
Third, cartographers would take these distortions into account when they make their maps.

Right, because they had to start with the assumption that the earth is round.

Quote
Fourth, if the world were flat then these maps would be terribly inaccurate.

You've lost me here.  How do you know?

Quote
Fifth, maps are used every day successfully.

They certainly are, but unfortunately that proves nothing.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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C-Ray

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 03:23:34 PM »
Really? The ancient chinese knew that they had to allow for distortion on a round planet?  Huh?  BS.  Get in a boat and go and get a map.  None of the early explorers where cartographers, that I know of.  You don't need a cartographer to draw a coastline and measure the distance from one shore to another.  Do it like the early explorers did it by exploring it.  Oh and cartographers these days use satellites and they know the earth is round.  Your answer is straw men.  Don't bring that to me.  Advance the theory, or file into the theories that never panned out where this silly hypothesis belongs.
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markjo

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 03:25:16 PM »
Roundy, it's really quite simple.

Round earth maps and flat earth maps will not look the same therefore if you try to use a round earth map to navigate a flat earth (or vice versa), you will get lost (especially in the southern hemisphere).

Now do you understand?
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 10:45:10 AM »
Quote
You've lost me here.  How do you know?

For the same reason you agree with the second statement of my post.

Quote
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 10:47:34 AM »
I just don't think we can draw any conclusions without the presence of an accurate map.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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C-Ray

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2008, 12:02:29 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 10:47:34 AM
I just don't think we can draw any conclusions without the presence of an accurate map.

;)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 12:06:04 PM by C-Ray »
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markjo

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2008, 12:04:13 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 10:47:34 AM
I just don't think we can draw any conclusions without the presence of an accurate map.

Yes, the lack of an accurate FE map certainly does seem to be a rather significant stumbling block in the advancement of FE research.
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2008, 12:11:17 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 10:47:34 AM
I just don't think we can draw any conclusions without the presence of an accurate map.

Without an accurate map you cannot, however that is not the case here.  We do have accurate maps that are successfully used to navigate every day.  Because they are based off of a Round Earth model, you have to admit that they would not be as accurate if the earth was not round.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 01:31:53 PM »
Quote from: ragnarr on November 25, 2008, 10:45:10 AM
Quote
You've lost me here.  How do you know?

For the same reason you agree with the second statement of my post.

Quote
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.

Except for:

Quote from: ragnarr on November 24, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
First, when a cartographer maps a part or all of the earth, they do so assuming a round earth.
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2008, 01:42:29 PM »
They don't?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »
No, the point is that if you make a map assuming a round earth you'll end up with a map that works on a round earth.  We have no such map assuming a flat earth for comparison.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 02:04:15 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
No, the point is that if you make a map assuming a round earth you'll end up with a map that works on a round earth.  We have no such map assuming a flat earth for comparison.

Exactly, it will work on a round earth, but if the earth is not actually round, then it would not work.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2008, 02:16:03 PM »
Quote
Exactly, it will work on a round earth, but if the earth is not actually round, then it would not work.

Why not? Maps are just a reference for travel; it's not absolute. A pilot could manage to get to Japan with either a Mercator or Azimuthal projection of the earth. His goal is just to get to a certain latitude and longitude.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2008, 02:16:37 PM »
Quote from: ragnarr on November 25, 2008, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
No, the point is that if you make a map assuming a round earth you'll end up with a map that works on a round earth.  We have no such map assuming a flat earth for comparison.

Exactly, it will work on a round earth, but if the earth is not actually round, then it would not work.

No.  It works on a round earth because it is made assuming a round earth.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2008, 02:22:27 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: ragnarr on November 25, 2008, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
No, the point is that if you make a map assuming a round earth you'll end up with a map that works on a round earth.  We have no such map assuming a flat earth for comparison.

Exactly, it will work on a round earth, but if the earth is not actually round, then it would not work.

No.  It works on a round earth because it is made assuming a round earth.

You are making the argument that the earth is not round.  It works on a round earth because it is round.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2008, 02:22:55 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 02:16:37 PM
No.  It works on a round earth because it is made assuming a round earth.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2008, 02:36:45 PM »
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 02:22:55 PM
Quote from: Doc Brownbottom on November 25, 2008, 02:16:37 PM
No.  It works on a round earth because it is made assuming a round earth.

Sure, but would it work on a flat earth because it is made assuming a round earth.
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markjo

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2008, 02:39:04 PM »
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 25, 2008, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: ragnarr on November 25, 2008, 10:45:10 AM
Quote
You've lost me here.  How do you know?

For the same reason you agree with the second statement of my post.

Quote
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.

Except for:

Quote from: ragnarr on November 24, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
First, when a cartographer maps a part or all of the earth, they do so assuming a round earth.

And when that map can be successfully used to navigate to distant parts of the world, the validity of assuming a round earth is confirmed.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Tоm Bishоp

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Re: Cartographical Query about Flat Earth model
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2008, 02:44:12 PM »
Quote from: markjo on November 25, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on November 25, 2008, 01:31:53 PM
Quote from: ragnarr on November 25, 2008, 10:45:10 AM
Quote
You've lost me here.  How do you know?

For the same reason you agree with the second statement of my post.

Quote
Second, we know that if you represent a spherical object onto a flat surface, there would have to be distortions.

Except for:

Quote from: ragnarr on November 24, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
First, when a cartographer maps a part or all of the earth, they do so assuming a round earth.

And when that map can be successfully used to navigate to distant parts of the world, the validity of assuming a round earth is confirmed.
NASA uses remote controls to steer you off course, so your proof means nothing in FET.
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the earth is flat, hence we can see distant lighthouses, hence the earth is flat
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