Quran & Modern Science

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AbdulAziz

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Quran & Modern Science
« on: September 29, 2008, 09:14:09 PM »
Since there are many people who are still believing that Mohammed wrote the Quran or another Human, I will be posting some of the miracles of the Quran. (I must thank our beloved Moderator Osama for allowing me to post this here)

Ever since the dawn of human life on this planet, Man has always tried to understand Nature, his own place in the scheme of Creation and the purpose of Life itself. In this quest for Truth, spanning many centuries and diverse civilizations, organized religion has shaped human life and, to a large extent, has determined the course of history. While some religions have been based on written text, claimed by their followers to be divinely inspired, others have relied solely on human experience.

Al-Quran, the main source of the Islamic faith, is a book believed by its followers, the Muslims, to be completely of Divine origin. Muslims also believe that it contains guidance for all humankind. Since the message of the Quran is believed to be for all times, it should be relevant to every age. But does the Quran pass this test?

I intend to give an objective analysis of the Muslim belief regarding the Divine origin of the Quran, particularly in the light of established scientific discoveries.

There was a time, in the history of world civilization,when ‘miracles’, or what were perceived to be miracles, took precedence over human reason and logic. Of course, the normal defination of ‘miracle’ is simply, anything that takes place out of the normal course of life and for which humankind has no explanation.

However, we must be careful before accepting something as a miracle. In 1993, ‘The Times of India’, Mumbai, reported that ‘a saint’ by the name ‘Baba Pilot’ claimed to have stayed continuously submerged under water in a tank for three consecutive days and nights. However, when reporters wanted to examine the bottom of the tank of water in which he claimed to have performed his ‘miraculous feat’, he refused to let them do so. He argued by asking as to how one could examine the womb of a mother that gives birth to a child. Obviously the ‘saint’ had something to conceal! His claim was a gimmick simply to gain publicity. Surely, no modern person with even the slightest inkling towards rational thinking would accept such a ‘miracle’. If such false miracles are the tests of divinity, then we would have to accept all world famous magicians known for their ingenious magical tricks and illusions, as genuine God-men!

A book, claiming to be of Divine origin, is in effect, claiming to be a miracle. Such a claim should be easily verifiable in any age, according to the standards of that age. Muslims believe, that the Qur’an is the last and final revelation of God, the miracle of miracles, revealed as a mercy to mankind. Let us therefore investigate the veracity of this belief.

THE CHALLENGE OF THE QURAN
Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures. The world also witnessed an age when literature and poetry occupied pride of position, similar to that now enjoyed by science and technology. Even non-Muslim scholars agree that the Qur’an is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce the likes of it:

And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. “But if ye cannot – and of a surety you cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject Faith.”


The challenge of the Qur’an, is to produce a single Surah (chapter) like the Surahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Qur’an several times. The challenge to produce a Surah, which, in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat similar to a Qur’anic Surah remains unmet to this day.

A modern rational man, however, would never accept a religious scripture which says, in the best possible poetic language, that the world is flat. This is because we live in an age, where human reason, logic and  science are given primacy. Not many would accept the Qur’an’s extraordinarily beautiful language, as proof of its Divine origin. Any scripture claiming to be a   divine revelation must also be acceptable on the  strength of its own reason and logic.
According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Albert Einstein, “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”  Let us therefore study the Qur’an, and analyze whether the Qur’an and Modern Science are compatible or incompatible?

The Quran is not a book of Science but a book of ‘Signs’, i.e. Aayaats. There are more than six thousand ‘Signs’ in the Qur’an of which more than a thousand deal with hard core Science.
We all know that many a times Science takes a ‘U-turn’. In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not hypotheses and theories based on mere assumptions and not backed by proof.


CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE: ‘THE BIG BANG’

The creation of the universe is explained by astrophysicists as a widely accepted phenomenon, popularly known as ‘The Big Bang’. It is supported by observational and experimental data gathered by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades. According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it happening by ‘chance’ is nil.

The Quran contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?” [Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

The striking similarity between the Quranic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

To Be Continued
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Benocrates

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 05:54:26 AM »
As to your first "proof," beauty is subjective, obviously. Secondly, I've been moved to tears by a song by Wagner, it means nothing of the Truth in his support of the Nazi movement.

 As for the similarity in a Koran verse to the modern idea of the big bang...

"1. All things were together, infinite both in number and in smallness; for the small also was infinite. And when they were all together, nothing was clear and distinct because of their smallness; for air and aether comprehended all things, both being infinite; for these are present in everything, and are greatest both as to number and as to greatness."

- Written around 430 BCE, by Anaxagoras. This sounds very similar to the abstract conception of the beginnings of the universe. This means, in no way, that the rest of Anaxagoras' fragments should be considered True. This was the first pre-Koranic philsopher I thought of, there are countless similar accounts.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 08:02:14 PM »
INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

“Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.’ They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.’”

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH

The light of the sun is due to a chemical process on its surface that has been taking place continuously for the past five billion years. It will come to an end at some point of time in the future, when the sun will be totally extinguished, leading to extinction of all life on earth. Regarding the impermanence of the sun’s existence, the Qur’an says:

"And the Sun runs its course for a period determined for it; that is the decree of (Him) the exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.”

The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Quran says that the sun runs towards a determined place, and will do so only up to a pre-determined period of time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

More to come...
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Raist

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 09:32:59 PM »
The quran was written long after mohamud's death.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 09:54:59 PM »
The quran was written long after mohamud's death.

That just proves you don't know much about the Islamic History :)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Raist

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 09:55:56 PM »
The quran was written long after mohamud's death.

That just proves you don't know much about the Islamic History :)
Not really.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 10:01:07 PM »
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Not really.

:)

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THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

In 1929, in the California Mount Wilson observatory, an American astronomer by the name of Edwin Hubble made one of the greatest discoveries in the history of astronomy. While he observed the stars with a giant telescope, he found out that the light from them was shifted to the red end of the spectrum and that this shift was more pronounced the further a star was from the earth. This discovery had an electrifying effect in the world of science, because according to the recognised rules of physics, the spectra of light beams travelling towards the point of observation tend towards violet while the spectra of the light beams moving away from the point of observation tend towards red. During Hubble’s observations, the light from stars was discovered to tend towards red. This meant that they were constantly moving away from us.

Before long, Hubble made another very important discovery: Stars and galaxies moved away not only from us, but also from one another. The only conclusion that could be derived from a universe where everything moves away from everything else is that the universe constantly ‘expands’.

To better understand, the universe can be thought of as the surface of a balloon being blown up. Just as the points on the surface of a balloon move apart from each other as the balloon is inflated, so do the objects in space move apart from each other as the universe keeps expanding.

In fact, this had been theoretically discovered even earlier. Albert Einstein, who is considered the greatest scientist of the century, had concluded after the calculations he made in theoretical physics that the universe could not be static. However, he had laid his discovery to rest simply not to conflict with the widely recognised static universe model of his time. Later on, Einstein was to identify his act as ‘the greatest mistake of his career’.

Subsequently, it became definite by Hubble’s observations that the universe expands.
What importance, then, did the fact that the universe expands have on the existence of the universe? The expansion of the universe implied that if it could travel backwards in time, the universe would prove to have originated from a single point. The calculations showed that this ‘single point’ that harboured all the matter of the universe should have ‘zero volume’ and ‘infinite density’. The universe had come about by the explosion of this single point with zero volume. This great explosion that marked the beginning of the universe was named the ‘Big Bang’ and the theory started to be so called.

It has to be stated that ‘zero volume’ is a theoretical expression used for descriptive purposes. Science can define the concept of ‘nothingness’, which is beyond the limits of human comprehension, only by expressing it as ‘a point with zero volume’. In truth, ‘a point with no volume’ means ‘nothingness’. The universe has come into being from nothingness. In other words, it was created.

The Big Bang theory showed that in the beginning all the objects in the universe were of one piece and then were parted. This fact, which was revealed by the Big Bang theory was stated in the Qur’an 14 centuries ago, when people had a very limited knowledge about the universe:


Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Surat al-Anbiya, 30)

As stated in the verse, everything, even the ‘heavens and the earth’ that were not yet created, were created with a Big Bang out of a single point, and shaped the present universe by being parted from each other.

When we compare the statements in the verse with the Big Bang theory, we see that they fully agree with each other. However, the Big Bang was introduced as a scientific theory only in the 20th century.

The expansion of the universe is one of the most important pieces of evidence that the universe was created out of nothing. Although this fact was not discovered by science until the 20th century, Allah has informed us of this reality in the Qur’an revealed 1,400 years ago:

It is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it. (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 47)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 10:09:21 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Althalus

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2008, 10:22:53 PM »
Even non-Muslim scholars agree that the Qur’an is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth.
Some may, but I doubt many do, or bother comparing it to the greats of Latin or English.

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The challenge of the Qur’an, is to produce a single Surah (chapter) like the Surahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Qur’an several times. The challenge to produce a Surah, which, in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat similar to a Qur’anic Surah remains unmet to this day.
Many similar propositions have been made like this. People have claimed that the earth does not move and that it is flat and challenged others to prove otherwise and they were not convinced.

And what constitutes beauty in this challenge? By composition of language alone, I would say many Arabic poets in the Islamic Golden Age matched and exceeded the dryer parts of the Koran. If we are going purely by content, then obviously few in the Arabic world dissented for fear of their life.

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The Quran is not a book of Science but a book of ‘Signs’, i.e. Aayaats. There are more than six thousand ‘Signs’ in the Qur’an of which more than a thousand deal with hard core Science.
And these 'signs' probably are written next to other verses that contradict modern science if interpreted to be a 'sign'. In other words, it doesn't matter if the verses you chose resembled science unless all the other verses in the passage are equally valid under modern science.

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We all know that many a times Science takes a ‘U-turn’. In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not hypotheses and theories based on mere assumptions and not backed by proof.
Evolution is a theory like the Big Bang and electromagnetism are theories, it has mountains more proof then any competing theory. This is a complete double standard on your part.

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The Quran contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?” [Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

The striking similarity between the Quranic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?
Interesting that the Big Bang Theory was first proposed in Europe several hundred years later by a Catholic priest, and that no Islamic scientists never made a similar proposition based on this verse. This is a prime example of reading meaning into a text after the fact, which could probably be said of most of these 'signs'.


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INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES
To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas.
I bet that no non-Islamic astronomer of physicist has ever said this.

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“Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.’ They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.’”

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?
This doesn't much resemble modern cosmology in any way, it just says that the sky is made of stuff and so is the earth.

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THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH
Yet another worthless prediction, considering that this was a staple of countless end-times myths from the Norse to the Mayans.

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It is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power, and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.

And 48 of that same sura says:

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And the earth -- We spread it forth; O excellent Smoothers!
So the earth is expanding as well.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 10:31:57 PM »
Let's see how you unbelievers can deny all the things I am going to post :)

"Surely, those who distort Our Signs to seek deviation therein, are not hidden from US. Is he , then, who is cast into the Fire better, or he who comes to US in security on the Day of Resurrection ? Do what you will. Surely, HE sees all that you do. Those who disbelieve in the Reminder - the Qur'an - when it has come to them are the losers. And truly, it is a mighty Book. Falsehood cannot approach it either from before it nor from behind it. It is a revelation from the Wise, the Praiseworthy."

Soon WE will show them Our Signs in farthest regions of the earth and among their own people until it becomes manifest to them that it is the truth. It is not enough that thy Lord is Witness over all things ? "

"Aye, they are, surely, in doubt concerning the meeting with their Lord; aye, HE, certainly, encompasses all things."

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ATOMS CAN BE DIVIDED

In ancient times a well-known theory by the name of ‘Theory of Atomism’ was widely accepted. This theory was originally proposed by the Greeks, in particular by a scholar called Democritus, who lived about 23 centuries ago. Democritus and the people that came after him, assumed that the smallest unit of matter was the atom. The ancient Arabs used to believe the same. The Arabic word zarrah most commonly meant an atom. In recent times modern science has discovered that it is possible to split even an atom. That the atom can be split further is a development of the 20th century. Fourteen centuries ago this concept would have appeared unusual even to an Arab. For him the zarrah was the limit beyond which one could not go. The following Qur’anic verse however, refuses to acknowledge this limit:

“The Unbelievers say, ‘Never to us will come The Hour’: say, ‘Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you – by Him Who knows the unseen – from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the Heavens or on earth: nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous."


This verse also refers to the Omniscience of God, His knowledge of all things, hidden or apparent. It then goes further and says that God is aware of everything, including what is smaller or bigger than the atom. Thus the verse clearly shows that it is possible for something smaller than the atom to exist, a fact discovered only recently by modern science.
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Benocrates

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 10:35:52 PM »
That post was complete bullshit...shut the fuck up. You can't be that dumb, and your trollness isn't recognized widely enough because too many people are taking you seriously.
Quote from: President Barack Obama
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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2008, 10:42:58 PM »
That post was complete bullshit...shut the fuck up. You can't be that dumb, and your trollness isn't recognized widely enough because too many people are taking you seriously.

Are you scared that "The Truth" will prevail if I kept posting these facts... If your getting scared suggest a mod to write a new rule: "Muslims are not allowed to Post in this forum"  :)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 10:44:31 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Raist

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 10:46:05 PM »
That post was complete bullshit...shut the fuck up. You can't be that dumb, and your trollness isn't recognized widely enough because too many people are taking you seriously.

Are you scared that "The Truth" will prevail if I kept posting these facts... If your getting scared suggest a mod to write a new rule: "Muslims are not allowed to Post in this forum"  :)
I prefer genocide.

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Althalus

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 11:03:30 PM »
Let's see how you unbelievers can deny all the things I am going to post :)
It does not matter how many examples you give, as if they are anything like the previous they will all be faulty.

Secondly none of us have "denied" anything. We have addressed your claims rationally and proved them to not be valid.

If you are trying to convince us that Islam is a religion that is reasonable then you will have to address all counter arguments against your own claims, for we will have no reason to believe your claims that regarding reason if you can not defend them using reason.

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Falsehood cannot approach it either from before it nor from behind it.
If this is true then you should be able to address our counter arguments.

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the Reminder
Great album, Feist is the shit.


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ATOMS CAN BE DIVIDED
Many others proposed this and subatomic particles before Muhammad.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 12:04:54 AM »
:)

MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT

It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago in the following verse:


“Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light.”

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.
The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

"It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty).”


“See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, “And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?”

The Glorious Qur'an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

"Say, `Each one is waiting; wait ye, therefore, and you will soon know who are the people of the right path and who follow true guidance, and who do not."
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 04:22:37 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Raist

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 12:07:11 AM »
So anyone that knows something ahead of their time has received word from god?

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 12:19:11 AM »
Note: Mohammed never went on a sailing on the sea or something like that.

THE WATER CYCLE

In 1580, Bernard Palissy was the first person to describe the present day concept of ‘water cycle’. He described how water evaporates from the oceans and cools to form clouds. The clouds move inland where they rise, condense and fall as rain. This water gathers as lakes and streams and flows back to the ocean in a continuous cycle. In the 7th century
B.C., Thales of Miletus believed that surface spray of the oceans was picked up by the wind and carried inland to fall as rain.

In earlier times people did   not know the source of underground water. They thought the water of the oceans, under the effect of winds, was thrust towards the interior of the continents. They also believed that the water returned by a secret passage or the Great Abyss. This passage is connected to the oceans and has been called the ‘Tartarus’, since Plato’s time. Even Descartes, a great thinker of the eighteenth century, subscribed to this view. Till the nineteenth century, Aristotle’s theory was still prevalent. According to this theory, water was condensed in cool mountain caverns and formed underground lakes that fed springs. Today, we have come to know that the rainwater that seeps into the cracks of the ground is responsible  for this. This is described by the Qur’an in the following verses:

"Seest thou not that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and leads it through springs in the earth? then He causes to grow, therewith, produce of various colours.”


“He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead: Verily in that are Signs for those who are wise.”

“And We send down water from the sky according to (due) measure, and We cause it to soak in the soil; and We certainly are able to drain it off (with ease).”


No other text dating back 1400 years ago gives such an accurate description of the water cycle.


EVAPORATION
“By the Firmament which returns (in its round)"

WINDS IMPREGNATE CLOUDS
“And We send the fecundating winds, then cause the rain to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water (in abundance).”

The Arabic word used here is lawaaqih which is the plural of laqih from laqaha, which means to impregnate or fecundate. In this context, impregnate means that the wind pushes the clouds together increasing the condensation that causes lightning and thus rain. A similar description is found in the following verses of the Qur’an:

“Seest thou not that Allah makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap?–then wilt thou see rain issue forth from their midst. And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) wherein is hail: He strikes therewith whom He pleases and He turns it away from whom He pleases. the vivid flash of His lightning well-nigh blinds the sight.”

"It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until thou seest raindrops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of His servants as He wills, behold, they do rejoice!”

Modern data on Hydrology agrees perfectly with the Qur'anic description on the same subject. The water cycle is described in several other verses of the Glorious Qur’an, including 7:57, 13:17, 25:48- 49, 35:9, 36:34, 45:5, 50:9-11, 56:68-70 and 67:30.

And tell me if the forbidder rejects the Truth and turns his back on it. How shall he fare ?  Does he not know that ALLAH sees all ? Nay, if he desist not, WE will assuredly, seize and drag him by the forelock . A forelock, lying, sinful.
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« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 04:22:22 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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MadDogX

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 12:26:43 AM »
AbdulAziz, I have a question on the topic of science. To be specific: anaesthetics. I remember reading something you wrote about Muslims not being allowed to consume alcohol because their senses should be clear for prayer. I would like to know how surgery is performed in islamic countries. Some surgical operations can take several hours, requiring the patient to remain sedated for a length of time. The surgeons are probably also too busy for prayer. What happens when one or several prayers are missed? Also, anaesthetics are essentially a kind of drug. Is the application of drugs for medical purposes permissable in Islam?

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Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 01:16:22 AM »
Hi MadDog, glad that you asked to clarify, they say the more you ask the more you learn ^_^ this is really a very important and good question you asked, Inshallah (If God wills). Our great Almighty God said in the Quran >>>

"ALLAH burdens not any soul beyond its capacity. It shall have the reward it earns, and it shall get the punishment it incurs"

"Our Lord, do not punish us if we forget or fall into error, and our Lord, lay not on us a responsibility as THOU didst lay upon those before us. Our Lord, burden us not with what we have not he strength to bear"


If a Muslim missed a prayer because of sickness and those stuffs Allah doesn't punish him that's why Allah doesn't punish child, insane because they are also not aware of what they are doing. This is just proves how merciful is our god to us. Also the doctor Allah said in the Quran the one who is giving life to another this good deed is as if he gave life to all mankind. On the other hand if someone killed an innocent its as if he killed all mankind!

While some other religions you might already know, claiming that people were going to get punished even though they were not created yet, and thus the sacrifice of the Son of god who is also considered a god in their religion is required so the god can forgive the "Uncreated beings" for a sin they didn't commit but their father did. Imagine some claims that if God didn't sacrifice his own son I would have been punished even though I was created few years back! But see what Allah says >>>


"And no soul earns evil but only against itself; nor does any bearer of burden bear the burden of another."

Wallah (I swear in the name of God) that if people just try to learn more about Quran, Islam they would realize that our god (Allah) truly the god that deserve to be worshiped and none-else

"Whoso does a good deed shall have ten times as much; but he who does an evil deed, shall be requited only with the like of it; and they shall not be wronged."

MadDog I really don't know what is your religion but I sincerely encourage you to ask if there was anything you doubted. Asking remove all the doubts you have in mind, by asking you can learn n_n

~Peace out~
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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MadDogX

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 01:25:09 AM »
I'm an atheist - always have been and always will be. My question arose out of pure curiosity.

By the way, I believe you overlooked my question about anaesthetics and the medical application of drugs.
Quote from: Professor Gaypenguin
I want an Orion slave woman :(
Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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Althalus

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 01:30:14 AM »
It would be nice of you to number all your suras.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 02:06:51 AM »
Quote
I'm an atheist - always have been and always will be. My question arose out of pure curiosity.

Still your always welcome to ask whenever a question comes ^_~

It would be nice of you to number all your suras.

Yeah I would do that from now one with the Sura Number and the Verse Number ^_^
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Benocrates

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 05:13:46 AM »
I'm an atheist - always have been and always will be.

Then you're as brainless and unreasonable as any religious fundie.
Quote from: President Barack Obama
Pot had helped
Get the fuck over it.

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Wendy

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2008, 08:16:18 AM »
I, on the other hand, am an atheist because I chose to be when I scrutinized the evidence laid forth. I also am creeped out by some christian movements, like pentecostalists and baptists.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Althalus

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2008, 09:25:12 AM »
Note: Mohammed never went on a sailing on the sea or something like that.

THE WATER CYCLE

In 1580, Bernard Palissy was the first person to describe the present day concept of ‘water cycle’.
The first European mabye, the Chinese have had a good understanding of the water cycle since 500BC.
Quote
No other text dating back 1400 years ago gives such an accurate description of the water cycle.
If we used backwards interpretation and ignore every Chinese text, yes.

Quote
EVAPORATION
“By the Firmament which returns (in its round)"
The sky rotates, amazing.


Quote
Modern data on Hydrology agrees perfectly with the Qur'anic description on the same subject. The water cycle is described in several other verses of the Glorious Qur’an, including 7:57, 13:17, 25:48- 49, 35:9, 36:34, 45:5, 50:9-11, 56:68-70 and 67:30.
Can't check these right now but they probably all refer to Chinese theories or are allegorical verses picked for a vague resemblence to modern science.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2008, 01:14:27 PM »
So Mohammed was knowing Chinese's language, greek, indian, Arabian, the languages of Jacob....etc I wish to meet him in heaven and tell him, your really amazing knowing all this alone :)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Althalus

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2008, 03:50:47 PM »
So Mohammed was knowing Chinese's language, greek, indian, Arabian, the languages of Jacob....etc I wish to meet him in heaven and tell him, your really amazing knowing all this alone :)
Knowledge is translatable.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2008, 04:25:59 PM »
THE SUN ROTATES

For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it.

In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day. After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from Geography books during my school days. Consider the following Qur’anic verse:

“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” [Al-Quran 21:33]

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon . This word is derived from the word
sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming.

Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space. Most school textbooks have now incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of an equipment that projects the image of the sun on the top of a table, so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate round its axis. The sun travels through space at roughly 240 km per second, and takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy.

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Al-Qur’an 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.
The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Jimbob

Holy text
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2008, 05:46:22 AM »
The Book of Lies can be read to mean different things, as if its intention was to be indecipherable, very much like the world around us. To quote any particular section of the Bible and interpret it as 'relevant' is like pointing out the 'relevance' of poetry.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2008, 05:54:41 PM »
By request...



# What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

   1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
   2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
   3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
   4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
   5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

# Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

   1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
   2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
   3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
   4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

# The first Muslim was Muhammad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?

   1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
   2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
   3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

# Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

   1. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48).  Also 4:116
   2. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

# Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

   1. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
   2. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
   3. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
   4. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

# Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

   1. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
   2. Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

# Is wine consumption good or bad?

   1. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
   2. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
   3. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
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AbdulAziz

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Re: Quran & Modern Science
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2008, 08:56:00 PM »
"And proclaim: `Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish."

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23513.msg502060#msg502060

"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)