I challenge FE

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I challenge FE
« on: June 13, 2008, 03:32:32 PM »
Explain spacetime.
What is it? How is it measured?

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 03:33:20 PM »
with a ruler

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 03:34:28 PM »
I alert you to the presence of this thread:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21444.0

I'm certain the RE'ers will have a good answer for you.

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 03:42:11 PM »
I think you're right to give up on FE'ers, Narc. I'm gonna hope for a bit longer

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lindelof

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 03:43:28 PM »

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James

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 03:44:06 PM »
Explain spacetime.
What is it? How is it measured?

It's a construct invented to prop up a desperately failing and outdated model of the laws of physics, and it's measured in unsupported conjectures-per-second.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 03:44:55 PM »
So why does FE theory use it then?

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 03:45:37 PM »
it's measured in unsupported conjectures-per-second.

Love it.

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 03:46:24 PM »
Nevermind it doesn't matter. At least we can finally put it to bed. If FE theory doesn't know what it is or how it's measured then I guess FE theory must be wrong. I'm gonna miss this forum but I suppose all good things must come to an end.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 03:53:51 PM »
Quote
Nevermind it doesn't matter. At least we can finally put it to bed. If FE theory doesn't know what it is or how it's measured then I guess FE theory must be wrong. I'm gonna miss this forum but I suppose all good things must come to an end.

Uh, only RE needs a "fabric of space-time" to explain how gravity is possible through its curvature.

FE doesn't need a hypothetical bending of space-time to explain how we are kept to the earth.

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 03:55:11 PM »
Quote
Nevermind it doesn't matter. At least we can finally put it to bed. If FE theory doesn't know what it is or how it's measured then I guess FE theory must be wrong. I'm gonna miss this forum but I suppose all good things must come to an end.

Uh, only RE needs a "fabric of spacetime" to explain how gravity is possible through its curvature.

FE doesn't need a hypothetical bending of space-time to explain how we are kept to the earth.

Holy shitballs Tom, didn't expect to see you in this thread of all places. Not seeing as the stars' slight gravitational pull is what causes tides!

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 04:01:19 PM »
Was it tides? Thinking about it now I can't actually remember, but the fact remains they do have a "slight gravitational pull" don't they? So does it involve gravitons then?

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 04:03:11 PM »
Oh, oh, oh! I found it! It's in the bloody FAQ of all places! Curse my memory sometimes!

Quote

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.

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lindelof

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 04:03:50 PM »
Was it tides? Thinking about it now I can't actually remember, but the fact remains they do have a "slight gravitational pull" don't they? So does it involve gravitons then?

And it explains why gravity decreases as you go up.

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James

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 04:57:44 PM »
And it explains why gravity decreases as you go up.

I don't believe it does.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 05:14:11 PM »
Explain spacetime.
What is it? How is it measured?

It's a construct invented to prop up a desperately failing and outdated model of the laws of physics, and it's measured in unsupported conjectures-per-second.

And what is the new model? How come nobody is researching the FE model?

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James

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 05:18:00 PM »
And what is the new model? How come nobody is researching the FE model?

Welcome back.

The new model is the Zetetic model, and nobody's researching it because they're stuck in a mental rut by a harmonious synthesis of their own apathy and the efforts of an immensely powerful money-hungry conspiracy.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2008, 05:26:27 PM »
And what is the new model? How come nobody is researching the FE model?

Welcome back.

The new model is the Zetetic model, and nobody's researching it because they're stuck in a mental rut by a harmonious synthesis of their own apathy and the efforts of an immensely powerful money-hungry conspiracy.

I don't see the issue though, what new knowledge could we gain by using zeteticism?

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James

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2008, 05:36:35 PM »
I don't see the issue though, what new knowledge could we gain by using zeteticism?

If you're asking this question, you don't understand Zeteticism.

Quote
THE term Zetetic is derived from the Greek verb Zeteo; which means to search, or examine; to proceed only by inquiry; to take nothing for granted, but to trace phenomena to their immediate and demonstrable causes. It is here used in contradistinction from the word "theoretic," the meaning of which is, speculative--imaginary--not tangible,--scheming, but not proving.

None can doubt that by making special experiments, and collecting manifest and undeniable facts, arranging them in logical order, and observing what is naturally and fairly deducible therefrom, the result must be more consistent and satisfactory than the contrary method of framing a theory or system--assuming the existence and operation of causes of which there is no direct and practical evidence, and which is only claimed to be "admitted for the sake of argument," and for the purpose of giving an apparent and plausible, but not necessarily truthful explanation of phenomena. All theories are of this character. "Supposing, instead of inquiring, imagining systems instead of learning from observation and experience the true constitution of things. Speculative men, by the force of genius may invent systems that will perhaps be greatly admired for a time; these, however, are phantoms which the force of truth will sooner or later dispel; and while we are pleased with the deceit, true philosophy with all the arts and improvements that depend upon it, suffers. The real state of things escapes our observation; or, if it presents itself to us, we are apt either to reject it wholly as fiction, or, by new efforts of a vain ingenuity to interweave it with our own conceits, and labour to make it tally with our favourite schemes. Thus, by blending together parts so ill-suited, the whole comes forth an absurd composition of truth and error.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2008, 06:11:19 PM »
I don't see the issue though, what new knowledge could we gain by using zeteticism?

If you're asking this question, you don't understand Zeteticism.

Quote
THE term Zetetic is derived from the Greek verb Zeteo; which means to search, or examine; to proceed only by inquiry; to take nothing for granted, but to trace phenomena to their immediate and demonstrable causes. It is here used in contradistinction from the word "theoretic," the meaning of which is, speculative--imaginary--not tangible,--scheming, but not proving.

None can doubt that by making special experiments, and collecting manifest and undeniable facts, arranging them in logical order, and observing what is naturally and fairly deducible therefrom, the result must be more consistent and satisfactory than the contrary method of framing a theory or system--assuming the existence and operation of causes of which there is no direct and practical evidence, and which is only claimed to be "admitted for the sake of argument," and for the purpose of giving an apparent and plausible, but not necessarily truthful explanation of phenomena. All theories are of this character. "Supposing, instead of inquiring, imagining systems instead of learning from observation and experience the true constitution of things. Speculative men, by the force of genius may invent systems that will perhaps be greatly admired for a time; these, however, are phantoms which the force of truth will sooner or later dispel; and while we are pleased with the deceit, true philosophy with all the arts and improvements that depend upon it, suffers. The real state of things escapes our observation; or, if it presents itself to us, we are apt either to reject it wholly as fiction, or, by new efforts of a vain ingenuity to interweave it with our own conceits, and labour to make it tally with our favourite schemes. Thus, by blending together parts so ill-suited, the whole comes forth an absurd composition of truth and error.

Still doesn't provide a way to prove things which are untestable which most of RE and FE fall under. Since when has philosophy given concrete answers?

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2008, 06:26:47 PM »
It's proven that I exist.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 06:29:34 PM »
It's proven that I exist.

I disagree
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2008, 06:35:39 PM »
And you can all you want. I have no proof that you exist, only that I do. Which is interesting since I know the earth is flat.

So the only person in existence whose existence is provable believes the earth to be flat. This should put an end to all the votes of popularity, amirite everyone?

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James

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2008, 06:37:31 PM »
Still doesn't provide a way to prove things which are untestable which most of RE and FE fall under. Since when has philosophy given concrete answers?

The shape of the Earth, which is the central question of both worldviews, is by no means untestable. You could test it yourself if you wanted to.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2008, 07:22:36 PM »
That's not what I said, I said I'm the only one whose existence is provable. The rest of you may or may not exist.

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2008, 08:17:41 PM »
You mean the only one who's existence is provable to himself, I assume.  In which case, you can't prove to me that you truly exist.  I can easily prove to myself that I exist however.
Don't try to argue with an idiot.  They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2008, 08:19:35 PM »
If I cannot prove you exist, how can I assert that you can prove you exist?

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2008, 08:37:24 PM »
And you can all you want. I have no proof that you exist, only that I do. Which is interesting since I know the earth is flat.

So the only person in existence whose existence is provable believes the earth to be flat. This should put an end to all the votes of popularity, amirite everyone?

I was sorry I doubted you, you god of FE
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2008, 01:40:56 AM »
More examples please.

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narcberry

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Re: I challenge FE
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2008, 03:27:21 PM »
And you can all you want. I have no proof that you exist, only that I do. Which is interesting since I know the earth is flat.

So the only person in existence whose existence is provable believes the earth to be flat. This should put an end to all the votes of popularity, amirite everyone?

I was sorry I doubted you, you god of FE

forgiven.