bishop has a problem with his stories

  • 51 Replies
  • 14501 Views
?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
bishop has a problem with his stories
« on: November 27, 2007, 11:49:44 AM »
bishop said:

I live along the California Monterey Bay. It is a relatively long bay that sits next to the Pacific Ocean. The exact distance between the extremes of the Monterey Bay, Lovers Point in Pacific Grove and Lighthouse State Beach in Santa Cruz, is 33.4 statute miles. See this map.

On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa. With a good telescope, laying down on the stomach at the edge of the shore on the Lovers Point beach 20 inches above the sea level it is possible to see people at the waters edge on the adjacent beach 33 miles away. I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore and teenagers merrily throwing Frisbees to one another. I can see runners jogging along the water's edge with their dogs. From my vantage point the entire beach is visible. Even with the unaided naked eye one can see the beaches along the opposite coast.

i find this very curious.  for starters, he claims that "On a very clear and chilly day...I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing".  anyone find this just a bit dubious?  i live on the pacific coast too, and even as far south as i, you do not go in the water on a chilly day without a wetsuit.  nor would any responsible parent allow their children to.  much less in monterrey bay.  (i've been to that area many times in many seasons - by, in, under, and on the water.)  bishop, do you want to modify your statement to say that the children were wearing wetsuits?  furthermore, for maximum visibility there has to be a cold wind.  and tom did say it was chilly.  yet...there were sunbathers.  (perhaps also wearing wetsuits, or sweaters?)  and people throwing frisbees. 

quite perplexing.  the conclusion that most logically fits the evidence here, is that bishop is lying.

furthermore, the naked eye cannot even come close to resolving people from 33 miles away.  another lie.  this can be proven mathematically.  (i've read it years ago in training...it's easy enough to do - maybe the engineer or others can bust out the calculator.)  and/or try it empirically.  i have.  (i am - or was - something of an expert in this field with lives depending on it.)  secondly, while looking low along the surface of water (or ground), no amount of magnification will do it.  that's because the conditions near the air/ground interface are very turbulent (with or without wind) with mixing temperature gradients, even under the best conditions. 33 miles is a fantastic amount of turbulence to look through, making it impossible to resolve anything but the largest objects no matter how much scope you have.  (but get 30 fee higher and things quickly change.)  especially in a pacific ocean bay, where cold ocean water and warmer waters mix, with guaranteed temperature gradients somewhere.

on top of that, if you've ever used binoculars to look down a beach (or across a bay), you notice a big problem: even with low surf, there is a lot of salt spray in the air.  i regularly look and photograph across a 15 mile bay, and I can assure you there is no way, at near ocean level, you can resolve people, much less the difference between children and teenagers, or a frisbee and some other thrown object, from that distance. 

unsurprisingly, bishop has provided zero original photographic evidence of his claims - we are suppose to take him just on his word alone, which is already worthless.  (he did provide a photo he did not take, snapped from a much higher vantage point, where you can see dunes on distant hills of the (undefined) distance.  dunes are not a beach.  (i have been to the dunes of the monterrey bay area.  they can be very large and high, and sure enough, aren't beaches.)

there is only one condition that would allow one to see people with the naked eye from 33 miles away:  viewing from just beneath the boundary of a stable temperature inversion, creating a superior mirage.  these are extremely rare in bishop's neck of the woods, and at any rate produce a wide variety of optical phenomenon.  the specific kind required for his story is very rare.  (extremely rare even on the northern great lakes, where conditions are far more favorable for superior mirages.)  even so, bishops inconsistencies about children and chilly water, etc. pretty much put to rest any possibility of him telling the truth.

and last but not least, not even his telescope can resolve the difference between children and teenagers, or a frisbee and something else, at 33 miles (even in a vacuum with no visual interference or distortion).  his telescope has a resolving power of  1.03arc*sec.  do the math.

bishop, how about providing us with original photographic evidence?  (some lame excuse or rowbotham quotes.)  i thought so.  it's easier just to sit on your ass and make shit up.

edit: fixed telescope link
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 12:07:38 PM by cpt_bthimes »

*

Gabe

  • 485
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 11:56:51 AM »
Yay! Your back!  ;D
...I can't follow the 'His Telescope' link. Is that just me?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 12:01:34 PM by Yiak »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 12:10:12 PM »
Yay! Your back!  ;D
...I can't follow the 'His Telescope' link. Is that just me?

hopefully not for long though :-\.  all bishop has to do is say "ok, you caught me in yet another of my many lies", and i'll leave again...

i fixed the link.

*

Gabe

  • 485
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 12:22:49 PM »
You probably have a better chance of getting eaten by vampires than getting Bishop to back down from one of his outrageous claims. Unfortunately his insanity is matched only by his persistence. In either case (vampires or debate) good luck to you sir!
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

?

Spec138

  • 109
  • To FE or not to FE...
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 03:41:10 PM »
TOM
LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA
/TOM

?

Loard Z

  • 4680
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 05:19:59 PM »
Yay! Your back!  ;D
...I can't follow the 'His Telescope' link. Is that just me?

hopefully not for long though :-\.  all bishop has to do is say "ok, you caught me in yet another of my many lies", and i'll leave again...

i fixed the link.

just  don't have another breakdown this time.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 05:46:52 PM »
You are also forgeting that TomB also claims that even though he can see across 33mi. of ocean a ship somehow will vanish over the horizon because there are all of these big waves that obscure it well before it reaches 33mi away
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2007, 08:33:18 AM »
You are also forgeting that TomB also claims that even though he can see across 33mi. of ocean a ship somehow will vanish over the horizon because there are all of these big waves that obscure it well before it reaches 33mi away

that's right, good point!

where is bishop?  oh yeah i forgot, whenever he gets owned, he just stops posting on the thread (or doesn't post to begin with).

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17328
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2007, 09:05:26 AM »
Quote
i find this very curious.  for starters, he claims that "On a very clear and chilly day...I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing".  anyone find this just a bit dubious?  i live on the pacific coast too, and even as far south as i, you do not go in the water on a chilly day without a wetsuit.  nor would any responsible parent allow their children to.  much less in monterrey bay.  (i've been to that area many times in many seasons - by, in, under, and on the water.)  bishop, do you want to modify your statement to say that the children were wearing wetsuits?  furthermore, for maximum visibility there has to be a cold wind.  and tom did say it was chilly.  yet...there were sunbathers.  (perhaps also wearing wetsuits, or sweaters?)  and people throwing frisbees.

Over here at the Monterey Bay people are at the beach throughout the spring, summer, and fall despite the weather. The weather is so turbid that it might be cold and windy one moment and sunny and calm the next. It is not out of the ordinary to see people lounging on the beach at all hours of the day.

Quote
furthermore, the naked eye cannot even come close to resolving people from 33 miles away.  another lie.  this can be proven mathematically.

I've never claimed to see people with the naked eye at a distance of 33 miles. I only claimed that the beaches could be seen with the naked eye. The people at the water's edge are not seen until the scene is observed through a high powered telescope.

Quote
You are also forgeting that TomB also claims that even though he can see across 33mi. of ocean a ship somehow will vanish over the horizon because there are all of these big waves that obscure it well before it reaches 33mi away

The sinking ship is a perspective effect occurring where the perspective lines intersect with the vanishing point. The effect can be countered and reversed by applying a telescope to the eye.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17435.msg301724#msg301724

Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2007, 09:09:23 AM »
Tom Bishop - you only seem to have addressed a few of the points raised. Are you a politician?

*

Gabe

  • 485
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2007, 09:12:35 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
I've never claimed to see people with the naked eye at a distance of 33 miles.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I live along the California Monterey Bay.
On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
It is a relatively long bay that sits next to the Pacific Ocean. The exact distance between the extremes of the Monterey Bay, Lovers Point in Pacific Grove and Lighthouse State Beach in Santa Cruz, is 33.4 statute miles. See this map.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

*

Gabe

  • 485
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2007, 09:13:20 AM »
Wow, that last post has nothing but Tom speaking. Including my signature!!!  :o

PS: Sinking effect disproved; see this topic you fled from:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=18122.0
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 09:17:01 AM by Yiak »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
There is no evidence for an infinite Earth.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
The Earth is infinite.
Warning, you have just lowered your IQ by reading my sig.

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2007, 09:44:13 AM »

The sinking ship is a perspective effect occurring where the perspective lines intersect with the vanishing point. The effect can be countered and reversed by applying a telescope to the eye.


A telescope does not reverse *any* effect.

In only magnifies.  Are you trying to tell me that lower 1/3 of the Toronto CN Tower (with the real building roughly added together with an estimation of the ground level) can be restored with a telescope??:



« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 10:00:22 AM by Moon squirter »
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

?

Loard Z

  • 4680
  • Insert witty intellectual phrase here...
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2007, 08:58:35 PM »

The sinking ship is a perspective effect occurring where the perspective lines intersect with the vanishing point. The effect can be countered and reversed by applying a telescope to the eye.


A telescope does not reverse *any* effect.

In only magnifies.  Are you trying to tell me that lower 1/3 of the Toronto CN Tower (with the real building roughly added together with an estimation of the ground level) can be restored with a telescope??:





thats what he's saying.
if i remember, austria is an old, dis-used name for what is now Germany.
See My Greatness

*

John Davis

  • Secretary Of The Society
  • Administrator
  • 15679
  • Most Prolific Scientist, 2019
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 06:07:35 AM »
I used to live on Lake Ontario, right in view of the CN tower.  Wish I had thought of trying it in my youth.  Maybe next time I visit.
Quantum Ab Hoc

*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10061
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2007, 06:22:09 AM »
Tom said it was chilly, now he says it might have been sunny that day.

Which means his vision would not have been as clear.

He has no photographic evidence.

He's saying that magnifying an image makes the vanishing point move away.  ::)


*

John Davis

  • Secretary Of The Society
  • Administrator
  • 15679
  • Most Prolific Scientist, 2019
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2007, 12:25:49 PM »
Tom said it was chilly, now he says it might have been sunny that day.
?  how are those mutually exclusive
Quantum Ab Hoc

*

Chris Spaghetti

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 12682
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2007, 12:57:39 PM »
It was a flat day

?

Conspiracy Mastermind

  • 1836
  • There is no conspiracy...
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2007, 01:38:15 PM »
In response to the OP:


BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Tomcooper84
there is no optical light, there is just light and theres no other type of light unless you start talkling about energy saving lightbulbs compared to other types of light bulbs
ENaG: Evidence Not a Guarantee.

?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2007, 11:03:37 PM »
Over here at the Monterey Bay people are at the beach throughout the spring, summer, and fall despite the weather. The weather is so turbid that it might be cold and windy one moment and sunny and calm the next. It is not out of the ordinary to see people lounging on the beach at all hours of the day.

huh.  you know, that's funny, because I live on the pacific coast, south of you, and grew up on the pacific coast, just north of you.  and in my (younger) youth, i was an avid surfer.  you might say i got outside alot, unlike yourself. 

and you...are full of shit. 

your statement above by itself isn't too far off: people do go to the beach in the winter.  but in the context of defending your statement which i attacked, you are just another (not-so) anonymous guy on the internet telling simple lies to promote his "challenged" belief system.  except the little details you tossed in to jazz the story up and sound more "authentic", stick out like a sore thumb.  to remind you, you said "On a very clear and chilly day...I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore...".  and again, you shoot yourself in the foot.  and again, i offer, do you care to amend your original statement to include that the children were wearing wetsuits?

so you fall back on "the weather changes rapidly" card.  the weather changes rapidly everywhere jackass, and everyone thinks their area is unique.  i know pacific coast weather.  i grew up with it.  in it.  another failure to to weasel your way out of a lie.

your credibility is zero.  you are a demonstrated multiple hit-and-run liar.  you lie compulsively.  it doesn't matter that your belief system is preposterous.  it doesn't matter that you reflexively quote a dead fundamentalist idiot which impresses no one but you seem to think otherwise while even your co-believers snicker at you.  why do you torture yourself like this?

Quote
You are also forgeting that TomB also claims that even though he can see across 33mi. of ocean a ship somehow will vanish over the horizon because there are all of these big waves that obscure it well before it reaches 33mi away

The sinking ship is a perspective effect occurring where the perspective lines intersect with the vanishing point. The effect can be countered and reversed by applying a telescope to the eye.

See: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=17435.msg301724#msg301724

cbarnett97 was referring to the lame "waves piling up and obscuring the ship" argument, not perspective.  you got owned by your own argument and didn't even realize it (or tried to play stupid so you could sidestep it).  besides, you pretty much got owned in the link you provided with the photo of the CN tower (also enhanced above).

bishop, whenever i find hope that humanity might climb it's way out of superstition, fear, and incurious dogmatic ignorance, you pop your head up like a little rat and blow it.

*

Trekky0623

  • Official Member
  • 10061
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 05:16:51 PM »
Tom said it was clear and chilly.

Okay, great, so we ask why there were sunbathers and swimmers.

He says the weather changes rapidly...

What?  So it changed from chilly to sunny and warm in five minutes, at which point you go out the telescope?

We don't care about your weather, the point is you said it was chilly, and in the same post said there were swimmers and sunbathers.

The weather didn't change in the middle of your experiment with the telescope.  You lied.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 05:34:54 PM »
California peoples is crazy, amirite?  They love danger!  They live in an area that's known to have bad earthquakes, fires, and all kind of other hell breaking loose, and often do so VOLUNTARILY!! 

They'd go out to swim in subzero weather if they got the chance, you know?

I feel sorry for those poor freezing kids and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for accusing poor Tom of lying.  You all just don't know how wacko Californinians can be!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

*

Optimus Prime

  • 1148
  • Autobot Leader: Keeper of the Matrix of Leadership
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 06:23:53 PM »
California peoples is crazy, amirite?  They love danger!  They live in an area that's known to have bad earthquakes, fires, and all kind of other hell breaking loose, and often do so VOLUNTARILY!! 

They'd go out to swim in subzero weather if they got the chance, you know?

I feel sorry for those poor freezing kids and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for accusing poor Tom of lying.  You all just don't know how wacko Californinians can be!

Um. Wow. ;D
Dyslexics are teople poo!

*

Jack

  • Administrator
  • 5178
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 06:27:31 PM »
Tom has the power to change the temperature whenever he likes.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 07:52:52 PM »
Tom said it was clear and chilly.

Okay, great, so we ask why there were sunbathers and swimmers.

He says the weather changes rapidly...

What?  So it changed from chilly to sunny and warm in five minutes, at which point you go out the telescope?

We don't care about your weather, the point is you said it was chilly, and in the same post said there were swimmers and sunbathers.

The weather didn't change in the middle of your experiment with the telescope.  You lied.
In tom's defense the mind has a way of changing details you were not paying attention to. Sunbathers would not have been that important. (unless he was looking for them specifically then my post is moot i'm sorry.) If you visualize yourself at a place you go to often at a certain date, the details may be totally wrong, but it will still be your favorite spot. Sorry if this is rambly but i'm kind of high.

*

token

  • 501
  • Why don't you go fuck a rolling doughnut!
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 08:06:39 PM »
Maybe I will!

?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2007, 11:54:57 AM »
In tom's defense the mind has a way of changing details you were not paying attention to. Sunbathers would not have been that important. (unless he was looking for them specifically then my post is moot i'm sorry.) If you visualize yourself at a place you go to often at a certain date, the details may be totally wrong, but it will still be your favorite spot. Sorry if this is rambly but i'm kind of high.

re'ers are nothing if not honest!

but to your point (inasmuch as it makes sense for a sober man today to debate a high man yesterday), if bishop felt he might be sketchy on the details, he should have left them out.  they should have been left out, period.  that's part of the way the scientific method works.  (but he uses rowbotham's method which encourages frivolous anecdotal comments having no bearing on the matter at hand.)  otherwise, that is a remarkably lucid contribution to the debate.  now, why don't you email me some of that shit.

*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 9074
  • Resident atheist.
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2007, 01:06:48 PM »
It proves deceit which is relevant, even when sunbathing is not.

Also, if weather changes so rapidly who would sunbath? People who live in areas where the temperature shoots up and down drastically (within the time of an experiment, say 3 minutes?) would learn not to do that.  ;)
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

?

cpt_bthimes

  • 553
  • exposer of lies
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2007, 01:53:56 PM »
It proves deceit which is relevant, even when sunbathing is not.

Also, if weather changes so rapidly who would sunbath? People who live in areas where the temperature shoots up and down drastically (within the time of an experiment, say 3 minutes?) would learn not to do that.  ;)

and anyone who lives on the coast can testify to how cold the water is, even as far as san diego.  i've surfed and swam on dozens of beaches between here and seattle.  no matter how thick your wetsuit is, you never get used to it and i've been doing it for about a decade.  your feet and hands are perpetually numb.  most people know about the strong current that goes clockwise past alaska, cooling off, and down the north american pacific coast.  even on a warm day, if you plan on being in the water for long, many still wear wetsuits.  anyone that has been on a pacific beach--any time of year--on a chilly day, knows it is fucking absurd to go "splashing in and out of the water".  the only splashing you see going on is from dogs chasing sticks thrown by their owners in heavy windbreakers.  monterey water even seems colder than most places around that latitude, probably because it is sitting practically on top of one of the deepest ocean trenches in the world.  but that's anecdote and conjecture (notice bishop that i disclaim mine as such), i haven't researched if there's actually a significant difference.

bottom line: bishop full of shit.  therefore, the only way *any* of his arguments can be taken seriously, is if he provides legitimate, referenceable and reproducible evidence.  (rowbotham does not meet that criterion.  why does that even need to be stated?)

i would love to see *photos* of his claims of children splishing/splashing on a chilly day on a beach visible from near ocean level 33 miles away.  (or even without said children or sunbathers would be acceptable too.)  imo, that could add significant legitimacy to his argument.  bring it on, bishop.  show us your pictures.  if they demonstrate what you are talking out your ass about, maybe we'll let some of the confabulations embedded in your claim slide.  (but that's just me.  don't let me speak for the re community.  i believe people can redeem themselves.)

*

Midnight

  • 7671
  • RE/FE Apathetic.
Re: bishop has a problem with his stories
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2007, 03:24:30 PM »
Yay! Your back!  ;D
...I can't follow the 'His Telescope' link. Is that just me?

hopefully not for long though :-\.  all bishop has to do is say "ok, you caught me in yet another of my many lies", and i'll leave again...

i fixed the link.

How does Narcberry do this so well? It borders on the Superhuman.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.