Earths curve

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jonathan41

Earths curve
« on: August 10, 2007, 07:08:54 AM »
How come when you look out to sea on a clear day you can clearly sea the curve of the earth?.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 07:10:39 AM »
You can see a curve. As for why, because it appears that way.
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jonathan41

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2007, 07:22:38 AM »
Its because it is. Is that the best you can come up with.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2007, 07:26:45 AM »
And we have another Criss Angel believer. Hooray!
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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2007, 07:40:48 AM »
And we have another Criss Angel believer. Hooray!

I like it when this comes up.  They never get it.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2007, 07:43:18 AM »
I like it when this comes up.  They never get it.

I know, it's great!
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The Communist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2007, 10:24:03 AM »
I am a Criss Angel Believer.  Balducci levitation and walking on frozen water is possible!
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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 01:00:29 PM »
Show me a picture of such a thing, and I will show you a flat horizon.

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James

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2007, 10:37:56 PM »
How come when you look out to sea on a clear day you can clearly sea the curve of the earth?.

You can't. In fact, you can't even see this mysterious curvature from a plane at 38000 feet (trust me, I've looked). Basically, if you think you can see the "curvature" from sea level you're delusional.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Jimmy Crackhorn

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 12:26:19 AM »
How come when you look out to sea on a clear day you can clearly sea the curve of the earth?.

You can't. In fact, you can't even see this mysterious curvature from a plane at 38000 feet (trust me, I've looked). Basically, if you think you can see the "curvature" from sea level you're delusional.
There are lots of witnesses and pictures that say otherwise. I'm not saying there's a curve, but it definitely appears that way.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 12:29:10 AM »
Appearances can be deceiving.
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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 01:08:50 AM »
Curvature at sea level is indeed a myth. Some people appear to see curvature while others do not, but in all cases taking a long straight object and holding it up to the horizon produces an exact match. I have, in fact, conducted this experiment myself (using Lake Michigan rather than an ocean, but Lake Michigan is large enough that the land on the far side is under the horizon, so it is as good as an ocean for the purposes of this experiment). The thread where I reported my results is here.
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James

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 04:13:51 AM »
Appearances can be deceiving.

Why are you conceding that there even is visible curvature at ground level? Direct evidence shows otherwise, as well as personal experience (just look at the horizon).
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2007, 08:05:08 AM »
Who am I to say what he can or cannot see it? Just because I don't see something doesn't mean other people don't.
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skeptical scientist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2007, 01:52:58 PM »
On the other hand, you can show that if he does see it it's purely an optical illusion or psychological effect, as my photograph shows.
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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2007, 02:22:54 PM »
Appearances can be deceiving.

That's what she said

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TheAtheist

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2007, 09:48:30 AM »
Appearances can be deceiving.

That's not the curvature of the earth. The curvature of the earth is not how much the horizon curves from left to right, it is the curve from say 100 miles away to 10 miles away.

When you look at a ship on the horizon that is sailing towards you, why can you see the ship's masts before you see the ship's hull?

And I still actually have not found any proof that the Earth is flat. I would like you to prove it. I went on the website and did not see any proof. It was all either circumstantial, things we just can't explain yet, and plain ignorance concerning several ideas in it.

The distance between the two poles is not enough to cause such a drastic change in temperature (about -30 F to 105 F) if the Sun is above the earth. Everywhere would be tropical if your ideas about the sun were correct.

We know the sun is very hot. Extremely hot in fact. It's powered by nuclear fusion. If the sun was 3000 miles away from the earth, within seconds your wonderful flat Earth would be disintigrated. If it's not powered by nuclear fusion, then what is the sun? How do you know the sun and moon are 32 miles in diameter?

Have you seen the wall at the edge of the earth?

Have you seen towers broadcasting "satellite" signals? There are no towers high enough to do this.

What are the seasons caused by?

How can space time be curved if the earth is flat?

If your effect of throwing a bit of light off the earth and watching what speed it travels at is zero, then how can the earth be constantly accelerating upward?



What are all the other stars?

Ask if you can take a flight over the south pole. Really. I want you to look over a map of flights and look for one that crosses the south pole. Better yet, get a 4 year training in NASA and learn its highest secrets. Then, take a shuttle flight into orbit.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 10:02:12 AM by TheAtheist »

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2007, 09:50:14 AM »
Show me a picture of such a thing, and I will show you a flat horizon.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2007, 09:56:26 AM »
When you look at a ship on the horizon that is sailing towards you, why can you see the ship's masts before you see the ship's hull?

Perspective.

What would happen if you flew a plane off of the "wall of ice" at the edge of the earth?

Why would a plane be traveling that far in the first place? As for what would happen, that is unknown since no one has been out that far and come to talk about it.

Why is the Sun turned off about every 12 hours, if it is circling above the earth?

It isn't turned off.

The distance between the two poles is not enough to cause such a drastic change in temperature (about -30 F to 105 F) if the Sun is above the earth.

We know the sun is very hot. Extremely hot in fact. It's powered by nuclear fusion. If the sun was 3000 miles away from the earth, within seconds your wonderful flat Earth would be disintigrated.

If you're assuming the properties of the Sun are the same as the RE Sun, then of course you'd be right. And therein, the reason you're incorrect.
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TheAtheist

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2007, 10:08:22 AM »

Perspective.

What would happen if you flew a plane off of the "wall of ice" at the edge of the earth?

Why would a plane be traveling that far in the first place? As for what would happen, that is unknown since no one has been out that far and come to talk about it.

Why is the Sun turned off about every 12 hours, if it is circling above the earth?

It isn't turned off.

The distance between the two poles is not enough to cause such a drastic change in temperature (about -30 F to 105 F) if the Sun is above the earth.

We know the sun is very hot. Extremely hot in fact. It's powered by nuclear fusion. If the sun was 3000 miles away from the earth, within seconds your wonderful flat Earth would be disintigrated.

If you're assuming the properties of the Sun are the same as the RE Sun, then of course you'd be right. And therein, the reason you're incorrect.

1. Please, explain.

2. Then why are there flights over it? If you are so confident about it, get on a flight with over a hundred other people on it. If you don't come back, well then it's flat (the pilot would turn around anyway if he knew waht he was doing). Go on the space shuttle.

People have been to the south pole. Unless they're all being blackmailed by the government, then ask them. Or, go there yourself:

http://polarexplorers.com/SPChamp.htm

3. How do you know what the properties of the FE sun are? If it's a spotlight effect, then how can it be a sphere? What IS the temperature of the FE sun? What is it made of?

How is space time curved?

Have you seen any towers broadcasting "satellite" signals?

What are the seasons caused by?

If your effect of throwing a bit of light off the earth and watching what speed it travels at is zero, then how can the earth be constantly accelerating upward?

What are all the other stars in the universe?

Have you seen the wall at the edge of the earth?

How does the military monitor this wall?

And finally, prove the earth is flat. I'm not going to go buy a book to find out about it.

I respect your opinion but after I read the FAQ, which didn't prove your point, just explain away our arguments, I don't think it's possible to change your minds (other than the link I just gave you).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 10:11:41 AM by TheAtheist »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2007, 10:08:26 AM »
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That's not the curvature of the earth. The curvature of the earth is not how much the horizon curves from left to right, it is the curve from say 100 miles away to 10 miles away.

I have never seen any curvature to the earth at sea level. I have also never seen curvature to the earth while on an international flight.

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When you look at a ship on the horizon that is sailing towards you, why can you see the ship's masts before you see the ship's hull?

The effect is not as pronounced as you think. As a ship recedes from an observer it sinks into the sea about a quarter of the way obscuring part of the hull and then fades out completely as a result of the non-transparent atmosphere.

As for why the ship sinks a quarter of the way into the water; it's due to a collusion of the waves intersecting with the line of sight due to the horizon line being at eye level. On a day with choppy waves the boat will sink a quarter of the way down. On a day with calm seas the boat will not sink. It will fade out.

See Chapter 14 Section 1 of Earth Not a Globe for more information.

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What would happen if you flew a plane off of the "wall of ice" at the edge of the earth?

If you flew a plane over the 150 foot wall of ice at the coast of Antarctica (Also known as the Ice Shelves) you would fly over a perpetual tundra of ice and snow. How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness.

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Why is the Sun turned off about every 12 hours, if it is circling above the earth?

The question, "how is it that the earth is not at all times illuminated all over its surface, seeing that the sun is always a few thousand miles above it?" may be answered as follows:--

First, if no atmosphere existed, no doubt the light of the sun would diffuse over the whole earth at once, and alternations of light and darkness could not exist.

Secondly, as the earth is covered with an atmosphere of many miles in depth, the density of which gradually increases downwards to the surface, all the rays of light except those which are vertical, as they enter the upper stratum of air are arrested in their course of diffusion, and by refraction bent downwards towards the earth; as this takes place in all directions round the sun--equally where density and other conditions are equal, and vice versā--the effect is a comparatively distinct disc of sun-light.

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The distance between the two poles is not enough to cause such a drastic change in temperature (about -30 F to 105 F) if the Sun is above the earth.

Temperature variations across the Flat Earth are caused by the angle of the sun's rays.



When sunlight shines from overhead (on left), one square foot of sunlight falls on one square foot of ground. When it shines at a shallow angle (on right), each square foot of sunlight spreads out over many feet of ground.

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We know the sun is very hot. Extremely hot in fact. It's powered by nuclear fusion. If the sun was 3000 miles away from the earth, within seconds your wonderful flat Earth would be disintigrated.

Nuclear Fusion does not power the FE sun. The conclusion of Nuclear Fission powering the sun from Spectral Analysis is a fallacy. See Page 6 of Zetetic Cosmogony.

Quote
And I still actually have not found any proof that the Earth is flat. I would like you to prove it. I went on the website and did not see any proof. It was all either circumstantial, things we just can't explain yet, and plain ignorance concerning several ideas in it.

You can find proof for the earth's flatness in Chapter 2 of Earth Not a Globe.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 10:16:21 AM by Tom Bishop »

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TheAtheist

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2007, 10:15:40 AM »
Just...read my post next time. And:

Prove the earth is flat.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2007, 10:27:24 AM »
Prove the earth is flat.

I hope you realize the inherent flaw in your request.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2007, 10:34:56 AM »
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3. How do you know what the properties of the FE sun are?

Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham studied the sun and its movements for over thirty years. His initial research is the basis for the sun's movements.

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If it's a spotlight effect, then how can it be a sphere? What IS the temperature of the FE sun? What is it made of?

The sun is a sphere in Flat Earth Theory. It's light is spread outwards in all directions. Due to the atmosphere, the size of the sun, and its near proximity to the earth, the rays of the sun are limited to a spotlight.

The temperature of the sun is unknown. The composition of the sun is unknown. What powers it is unknown. Further research is needed for these variables. But what powers the sun is not that critical to Flat Earth Theory since with its near proximity to the earth, in order to heat up the environment, the sun may as well be powered by coal.

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How is space time curved?

This question is irrelevant to the discussion. But as an interesting side note, former FES president Leo Ferarri is known for using the idea of space-time curvature being the cause of the Flat Earth appearing rounded from space.

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What are the seasons caused by?

The radius of the sun's orbit around the Earth's axis symmetry varies throughout the year, being smallest when summer is in the northern annulus and largest when it is summer in the southern annulus.



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If your effect of throwing a bit of light off the earth and watching what speed it travels at is zero, then how can the earth be constantly accelerating upward?

Incoherent question.

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What are all the other stars in the universe?

Due to astronomical parallax on a plane surface, the stars are known to be small bright motes located about four thousand miles above the sea level of the earth. By plane trigonometry, in special connection with carefully measured base lines, Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham has demonstrated and placed beyond all power of doubt that the sun, moon, stars, and galaxies are all within a distance of a few thousand miles from the surface of the earth. Therefore they are very small objects. Therefore not worlds. Therefore not light years across or from each other.

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Have you seen the wall at the edge of the earth?

Plenty of people have seen the 150 foot high wall of ice at the edge of the known world.

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How does the military monitor this wall?

There is no military presence in Antarctica.

Quote
And finally, prove the earth is flat. I'm not going to go buy a book to find out about it.

The book is free, available online.

Here's a derived experiment I preform regularly for house guests demonstrating the reality of the Flat Earth:

I live along the California Monterey Bay. It is a relatively long bay that sits next to the Pacific Ocean. The exact distance between the extremes of the Monterey Bay, Lovers Point in Pacific Grove and Lighthouse State Beach in Santa Cruz, is 33.4 statute miles. See this map.

On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa. With a good telescope, laying down on the stomach at the edge of the shore on the Lovers Point beach 20 inches above the sea level it is possible to see people at the waters edge on the adjacent beach 33 miles away. I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore and teenagers merrily throwing Frisbees to one another. I can see runners jogging along the water's edge with their dogs. From my vantage point the entire beach is visible. Even with the unaided naked eye one can see the beaches along the opposite coast.

IF the earth is a globe, and is 24,900 English statute miles in circumference, the surface of all standing water must have a certain degree of convexity--every part must be an arc of a circle. From the summit of any such arc there will exist a curvature or declination of 8 inches in the first statute mile. In the second mile the fall will be 32 inches; in the third mile, 72 inches, or 6 feet, as shown in this chart. Ergo; looking at the opposite beach 30 miles away there should be a bulge of water over 600 feet tall blocking my view. There isn't.

Whenever I have doubts about the shape of the earth I simply walk outside my home, down to the beach, and perform this simple test. The same result comes up over and over throughout the year under a plethora of different atmospheric conditions.

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And I still actually have not found any proof that the Earth is flat.

What proof do you have showing that the earth is round?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 10:53:01 AM by Tom Bishop »

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TheEngineer

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2007, 10:42:09 AM »
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If your effect of throwing a bit of light off the earth and watching what speed it travels at is zero, then how can the earth be constantly accelerating upward?
Quoted for...I don't know, ignorance, maybe?  Or out of just sheer amazement.


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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2007, 08:10:59 PM »
Here's a derived experiment I preform regularly for house guests demonstrating the reality of the Flat Earth:

I live along the California Monterey Bay. It is a relatively long bay that sits next to the Pacific Ocean. The exact distance between the extremes of the Monterey Bay, Lovers Point in Pacific Grove and Lighthouse State Beach in Santa Cruz, is 33.4 statute miles. See this map.

On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa. With a good telescope, laying down on the stomach at the edge of the shore on the Lovers Point beach 20 inches above the sea level it is possible to see people at the waters edge on the adjacent beach 33 miles away. I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore and teenagers merrily throwing Frisbees to one another. I can see runners jogging along the water's edge with their dogs. From my vantage point the entire beach is visible. Even with the unaided naked eye one can see the beaches along the opposite coast.

IF the earth is a globe, and is 24,900 English statute miles in circumference, the surface of all standing water must have a certain degree of convexity--every part must be an arc of a circle. From the summit of any such arc there will exist a curvature or declination of 8 inches in the first statute mile. In the second mile the fall will be 32 inches; in the third mile, 72 inches, or 6 feet, as shown in this chart. Ergo; looking at the opposite beach 30 miles away there should be a bulge of water over 600 feet tall blocking my view. There isn't.

Whenever I have doubts about the shape of the earth I simply walk outside my home, down to the beach, and perform this simple test. The same result comes up over and over throughout the year under a plethora of different atmospheric conditions.
...
TomB regularly lies. Please ignore any representations he makes without complete evidence. We've challenged him, for example, to document his "derived experiment", replete with a monetary incentive.

Also he misrepresents evidence, often lying about their context. He even misrepresented the photo of the bay in the above quote. Clearly, it's not taken at the bay level as required by the experiment.

Oh, and anytime he asks for evidence for RE, just point him to the RE Primer. It's the consensus of the REers, complete with documented experiments proving that the Earth is a globe.

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James

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2007, 01:40:18 PM »
TomB regularly lies. Please ignore any representations he makes without complete evidence. We've challenged him, for example, to document his "derived experiment", replete with a monetary incentive.

Will you give me and the SWEFES a monetary incentive for replicating our experiments and sending you the data? Seriously, we can use more patrons and funds.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Re: Earths curve
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2007, 05:23:00 PM »
TomB regularly lies. Please ignore any representations he makes without complete evidence. We've challenged him, for example, to document his "derived experiment", replete with a monetary incentive.

Will you give me and the SWEFES a monetary incentive for replicating our experiments and sending you the data? Seriously, we can use more patrons and funds.
Sure. But you do recall that you already declined one such offer?

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narcberry

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2007, 09:50:44 PM »
Another victory for FE!!!

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TheEngineer

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Re: Earths curve
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2007, 10:46:18 PM »
Narc, that's really getting old.


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