Proof of FE

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2007, 05:36:07 PM »
A vector works because the bubble rises to the point farthest from the ground because air naturally rises in relation to the ground in a denser substance (liquid).  If one side of the vector is closer to the ground, the bubble will go the other direction in the tube.  I cannot see how the vector example would prove the absence of curvature on the earth.

Vectors dont have bubbels

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2007, 05:36:45 PM »
Can level his home using the same vector.

It still doesn't mean that he does.

lol. sprung.

But because he can, and the process is continuous, the induction holds.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2007, 05:40:57 PM »
So far it's still an imaginary experiment. You don't know if a curve would be noticed or not until somebody carries this shit out. Even then the equipment would not be sensetive enough to measure the curve across the space of a few dozen metres.

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2007, 05:51:54 PM »
So far it's still an imaginary experiment. You don't know if a curve would be noticed or not until somebody carries this shit out. Even then the equipment would not be sensetive enough to measure the curve across the space of a few dozen metres.

The proof is there, the proof is solid, and you still find it wanting.

World is round.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2007, 06:44:08 PM »
You're using circular logic to prove your point. Your "experiment" only makes sense if you know the world is flat, which you are trying to prove. The argument is a fallacy by the very definition of an argument, because your answer is also a variable in the equation.

Therefore, you cannot argue that the world is flat with your statement.

Being a Canadian, there's one thing I've learned about conservative Americans like yourself: you like your guns, tall buildings, and fast cars. I can provide strong indications of a round earth using these things.

For example, the CN tower in Canada is the world's largest freestanding structure. It's so tall in fact, that they had to plant lasers at the base of the tower when they were building it. Why, you ask? Well, due to the Coriolis effect, the farther away from the surface of the Earth you are, the faster you're rotating. In effect, if the construction workers built straight up without any references to the ground, the structure would corkscrew and be impossible to build totally straight. Ergo, the construction of tall buildings takes into account a round (and spinning) earth.

Now, guns. If you know any sniper specialists in the Army, they will back this up. When a sniper has to make a shot at extreme distances (over a mile), they cannot simply shoot straight at their target, due to wind and the arc of the bullet, obviously. However, they also need to take into account where on the Earth they are, so they can account for the rotation of the earth. If they do not, they cannot properly hit their target. Ergo, a round (and spinning) earth is a sniper's enemy, but one he has to contend with.

Cars are a little trickier, so I will use commercial airplanes. The proposed shape of the flat earth is like a dollar coin, with all the continents up top. Say a pilot wanted to get from Sydney Australia to Washington DC. In a flat earth, the most direct route will be roughly across the North Pole, but in reality they travel over the Pacific Ocean, which in a flat earth would equate to much more time and fuel wasted. I've seen this argument refuted in other posts as planes stopping at many cities along the way, but that's inapplicable here as there is nowhere to stop over the Pacific. And since commercial airliners like saving fuel, and money, they take the most direct route. So, pilots take a route that highly indicates a round earth, being the most efficient path.

One final morsel of food for thought is time zones. If you look on a map of the time zones, you will see they stretch from pole to pole. On a flat earth, they would need to all begin at true North and radiate outward like bicycle spokes. This analysis does not match the actual arrangement of the time zones, as then Australia and Africa would be one huge time zone, instead of several moderately sized ones, which they actually are.

I understand that a key tenet of Flat Earthers is a worldwide conspiracy to hide the true nature of the earth, in which case my argument, and by extension all others, are meaningless. In that case, do not quote vectors and angles and gradients without actually understanding the scientific method.
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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2007, 06:47:37 PM »


For example, the CN tower in Canada is the world's largest freestanding structure. It's so tall in fact, that they had to plant lasers at the base of the tower when they were building it. Why, you ask? Well, due to the Coriolis effect, the farther away from the surface of the Earth you are, the faster you're rotating. In effect, if the construction workers built straight up without any references to the ground, the structure would corkscrew and be impossible to build totally straight. Ergo, the construction of tall buildings takes into account a round (and spinning) earth.

That's cool I didn't know they had to account for that when building skyscrapers.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2007, 06:58:29 PM »
Yeah, I know. My grandpa used to be an architect, and they did the same thing with the World Trade Centres and underwater drilling platforms.

The thing I find most fascinating is snipers taking into account the rotation of the earth when making their shot. I find that incredible; I only heard of that recently.
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Ammo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2007, 11:34:54 PM »
1: Person A can have his home leveled parrallel to the earth
2: Person A's neighbor can level his home using the same vector
3: There exists a person in France
4: There exists a person in Romania
5: There exists an urban path between the person in France and the person in Romania
6: Each building on this path can be leveled using its neighbors vector
7: Therefore the path between France and Romania is flat
8: If the earth is round its curvature would be noticeable from France to Romania
9: Therefore the world is not round, but is flat at least where an urban path exists

How is this any different than me saying:
1: Person A cannot have his home leveled parallel to the earth.
2: Person A's neighbor cannot level his home using the same vector.
3: There exists a person in France
4: There exists a person in Romania
5: There exists an urban path between the person in France and the person in Romania
6: So Each building on this path canot be leveled using its neighbors vector.
7: Therefore the path between France and Romania is curved.
8: If the earth is flat its flatness would be noticeable from France to Romania.
9: Therefore the world is not flat, but is round at least where an urban path exists.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 11:38:24 PM by Ammo »
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Tom has a BS in BS.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2007, 04:58:01 AM »
Exactly. He already states as fact what he sets out to prove, therefore his experiment is a fallacy.
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Ammo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2007, 10:03:21 AM »
Exactly. He already states as fact what he sets out to prove, therefore his experiment is a fallacy.

Yeah, his first statement is already an assumption that the earth is flat. 

and btw, are you a Pastafarian?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Tom has a BS in BS.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2007, 12:41:05 PM »
Lol, you're the first person to ask me that. And yes I am.

May you be blessed by His noodly appendage for your consideration.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2007, 12:43:05 PM »
hehe pastafarian
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silverhammermba

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2007, 03:11:59 PM »
One of my life-long dreams is to create a museum that's just one long, straight corridor. The entrance would be built perfectly tangent to the Earth and it would be constructed using lasers or whatnot to ensure its straightness. Basically, you'd go in and along the walls every now and then would be a simple level (the kind with the bubble inside) so that as you walk you could see how the corridor is becoming more and more "slanted" as it gets further away from the Earth. By the end you'd be standing on a slanted surface probably a good distance off the ground and you could look back and see the straight corridor you'd just walked down.

I know that it's not really a plausible construction, but it would be so sweet to witness the curvature firsthand.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2007, 03:15:23 PM »
Didn't Lewis Carroll write about something like that in Sylvie and Bruno? Pretty sure he did. bah I need the book back now to look it up
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2007, 03:15:50 PM »
It probably wouldn't have to be that long. The world's longest suspension bridges have to account for the curve and they are all less than 2 Km long.

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2007, 05:40:44 PM »
1: Person A can have his home leveled parrallel to the earth
2: Person A's neighbor can level his home using the same vector
3: There exists a person in France
4: There exists a person in Romania
5: There exists an urban path between the person in France and the person in Romania
6: Each building on this path can be leveled using its neighbors vector
7: Therefore the path between France and Romania is flat
8: If the earth is round its curvature would be noticeable from France to Romania
9: Therefore the world is not round, but is flat at least where an urban path exists

How is this any different than me saying:
1: Person A cannot have his home leveled parallel to the earth.
2: Person A's neighbor cannot level his home using the same vector.
3: There exists a person in France
4: There exists a person in Romania
5: There exists an urban path between the person in France and the person in Romania
6: So Each building on this path canot be leveled using its neighbors vector.
7: Therefore the path between France and Romania is curved.
8: If the earth is flat its flatness would be noticeable from France to Romania.
9: Therefore the world is not flat, but is round at least where an urban path exists.

Why are you just repeating my proof? I already said the world is flat. flat like your mom.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2007, 05:43:57 PM »
Flat like my mom? What?

From now on, I'm keeping a token douchebag score for narcberry, and it'll be updated every time I see you post something worthless and/or retarded in the forum. So far you're at 2. Keep it up.
I wish my lawn was emo so it'd cut itself.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2007, 05:44:33 PM »
Flat like my mom? What?

From now on, I'm keeping a token douchebag score for narcberry, and it'll be updated every time I see you post something worthless and/or retarded in the forum. So far you're at 2. Keep it up.

Brilliant! ;D
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Ammo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2007, 06:47:08 PM »

Why are you just repeating my proof? I already said the world is flat. flat like your mom.

I'm not just repeating your so called "proof".  Im asking you how is it any different than me saying the same thing but for Round Earth.

Not only that, but your "proof" is flawed.  You already assume what you  set out to prove in your first statement. 
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Tom has a BS in BS.

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2007, 07:52:05 PM »
Exactly. What a douchebag.
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Christopher Columbo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2007, 08:18:52 PM »
Why are you just repeating my proof? I already said the world is flat. flat like your mom.

Your poof is about as good as when RE'ers provide a picture of a round earth.  I'm sorry you fail to spearhead real proof of a FE.  Please try again.
sailed the earth all around it  even the round part and all with my trusty detective cloak

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 12:12:56 PM »
Is there a simple experiment that can be done at home to prove the Earth is flat? (Dont say no but there isnt one for RE either, I think the earth is round, i want to know why i should think its flat) And no i dont want to look at the literature, it doesnt give me anything appropriate.

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Ammo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2007, 01:51:49 PM »
And no i dont want to look at the literature, it doesnt give me anything appropriate.

Not to mention its 100 years old.  Before modern technology.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Tom has a BS in BS.

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2007, 01:25:59 PM »
Is there a simple experiment that can be done at home to prove the Earth is flat? (Dont say no but there isnt one for RE either, I think the earth is round, i want to know why i should think its flat) And no i dont want to look at the literature, it doesnt give me anything appropriate.

Contrary to the opinions of the morons above that do not understand the consequences of a proof, you can use my proof as the basis of your own home experimentation.

1: Look at your home floor
2: Notice it is flat, not curved
3: Realize that the earth consists of billions of flat surfaces, all parrallel to each other
4: Write a note to your parents, "Omg the world is flat, you liars"
5: Put the note on your table stand
6: Hang yourself for effect
QED, world is flat

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narcberry

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2007, 01:29:02 PM »
How does my homosexuality affect the shape of the earth?

OMG it doesnt, read the proof and stay on topic please.

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CommonCents

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2007, 01:40:45 PM »
Is there a simple experiment that can be done at home to prove the Earth is flat? (Dont say no but there isnt one for RE either, I think the earth is round, i want to know why i should think its flat) And no i dont want to look at the literature, it doesnt give me anything appropriate.

Contrary to the opinions of the morons above that do not understand the consequences of a proof, you can use my proof as the basis of your own home experimentation.

1: Look at your home floor
2: Notice it is flat, not curved
3: Realize that the earth consists of billions of flat surfaces, all parrallel to each other
4: Write a note to your parents, "Omg the world is flat, you liars"
5: Put the note on your table stand
6: Hang yourself for effect
QED, world is flat


And how do we know all these flat surfaces are parallel? I don't recall seeing anything that supports that statement other than saying the earth is flat so they must be parallel.
OMG!

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2007, 02:25:17 PM »
Here's an experiment I propose to you:


-Go to a large, open, flat* area. Preferably one in which there is a fairly large upright structure. (For example, a slat flat with a nearby cliff or mountain. Or, a Prairie with a water tower.)
-Stand a great distance from the tall object, and set up a Tripod with a Laser-pointer on it.
-Point the Laser at the tall object, and level it with a vector.
-Measure the height of the tripod.
-Leaving the tripod as it is, go to the Tall object and measure the height at which the laser hits it. (If conditions are making the tripod unstable, have a friend keep track of it while you make the second measurement, or just do the experiment on a nicer day)
-Compare the measured heights, and how they relate to the accepted curvature of RE.
-Repeat the experiment at different distances, and at multiple locations.

If the world is flat, the measured altitudes will not differ by any significant value. (Margin of error and all that)

If the world is round, you will find that the altitude on the distant object will be consistently higher than that of the tripod, and that this difference increases with distance.

[If your numbers don't suggest anything either way, find a more accurate way of levelling the laser and try again]

I suggest that others try the same. Even if it doesn't change your position on anything, it's an excuse to go for a nice drive and spend some time outside with friends.

*I define 'flat' here to mean that all points on the field are measured as having the same altitude.

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CommonCents

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2007, 02:45:16 PM »
But doesn't the government set up special lenses on lasers to make experiments like this work on the flat earth?
Hehe BS aside that's a very good experiment, I wonder how many will actually do it though.  I personally don't have access to a salt flat but maybe I could find a prairie.  Thanks!
OMG!

Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2007, 02:47:54 PM »
But doesn't the government set up special lenses on lasers to make experiments like this work on the flat earth?
Hehe BS aside that's a very good experiment, I wonder how many will actually do it though.  I personally don't have access to a salt flat but maybe I could find a prairie.  Thanks!
A very long Urban or sub-urban road may suffice as well, as long as you can verify its 'flat'ness, and have something to aim at.

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Ammo

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Re: Proof of FE
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2007, 03:43:23 PM »
Is there a simple experiment that can be done at home to prove the Earth is flat? (Dont say no but there isnt one for RE either, I think the earth is round, i want to know why i should think its flat) And no i dont want to look at the literature, it doesnt give me anything appropriate.

Contrary to the opinions of the morons above that do not understand the consequences of a proof, you can use my proof as the basis of your own home experimentation.

1: Look at your home floor
2: Notice it is flat, not curved
3: Realize that the earth consists of billions of flat surfaces, all parrallel to each other
4: Write a note to your parents, "Omg the world is flat, you liars"
5: Put the note on your table stand
6: Hang yourself for effect
QED, world is flat

Wrong.
That is neither an experiment nor a proof.
Like I, and others said before, you are already assuming IN your proof what you set out to prove.  Thats like defining a word using the word you are trying to define.

Take out a graphing calculator.  Draw a curve.  Any curve will do.  Zoom in on a small area on that  curve 4-5 times.  It starts looking like a straight line.   The same thing hapens with the earth.  The earth is so massive and when you look out your window and look at a small portion of the earth (like you do when you zoom in on a line with your calculator) it appears flat.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Tom has a BS in BS.